RAUK - Archived Forum - Posts by sussexecology:

Hi Steve and Jon

Do you know, or anyone else know, if the updated reptile mitigation guidelines from Natural England, have been produced yet? I believe that Natural England were hoping to get these published in the spring 2010.

I'm an ecological consultant but find it frustrating there is no formal reptile mitigation advice (which is up to date).

I was interested to read your comments though Jon. Certainly regarding reptile surveys, the minimum seems to be 7 although I have often found silow worms on the 3rd visit.

Some informaiton on assessing the impacts of develpoment would be helpful and what the minimum required for mitigation is. Particularly interested in slow worm mitigation advice that this up to date in relation to receptor sites and habitat enhancement.

i believe that it is bad practice to move reptiles from a development site without planning permission. However, in some cases, I have been forced to begin mitigation because planning authorities are somewhat laid back and often cause delays.

Any comments would be welcome. 

Thanks for your comments.

I agree that more than 7 visits are required as well as the density of refugia. In fact I feel that the  more visits you can do, the better - providing the weather conditions are suitable.

Regarding the number of refugia - Froglife recommend using 5-6 per ha but I have found that using a density of 50+ is far better. It depends on the site conditions and available habitats as well as the materials that you have available. I have found that roofing felt and corrugated iron works well for slow worms.

I think more research is required to determine if translocation programmes are successful for reptiles - esp slow worms. I would normally recommend that surveys are undertaken for at least 5 years following the translocation, although obviously this depends on time constraints, weather conditions and funding.

Re the mitigation for slow worms - i have found that strimming areas of grass where slow worms are known to be present and leaving patches of grass uncut makes it easier to catch them. Obviiously this needs to be controlled and done gradually but it works!

Thanks again.

Thanks Jon for your comments. I would be, and I know others would be too, of any further training on assessing population status of widespread reptiles.

By the way, I wasn't indicating that consultants should go by the Froglife's advice as it is obvious from reading this that it is intended for volunteer surveys. I was only stating that consultant surveys would naturally need to be detailed, due to the reasons whuconsultants undertake these surveys.

.

Steve and Jon have pretty much highlighted what I was going to point out in terms of estimating the population estimate.

The bottom line is that it will depend on the quality of the habitat and I always tend to use between 7 - 10 visits to assess the populaiton status (although I will often go above this, to ensure accuracy and undertake a reliable survey).

It will also depend on the time of year that you are undertaking the survey. Surveys in April, May and September are much more likely to be productive than in say, July. However, surveys can still be undertaken in July, providing that all the times of day and weather conditions are met.

It would make more sense if we all work to the same guidelines as it seems to me that there are some consultancy groups that don't.

In terms of survey objectives, if the survey is for a development the survey objectives should be presence/absence and population density. If a survey is for a landowner, then the objectives would be absence/presence. However, our consultancy will always aim to use the same number of visits for jobs because then it is consistent and professional. In other words, if anyone wants to take us to court about a survey result, then we have a strong case for a professional survey always  being undertaken.

In any case, it is very difficult to determine and prove absence on a site, if the quality of the habitat is very good. In reports it should be highlighted in these cases, that there is a "likely presence" of reptile species on a site. I think this is something which is over-looked and certainly I have read other consultancy reports who have not found anything and didn't highlight this fact above. What I am saying is, if you only do 3 visits and find nothing - it doesn't mean anything because there are so many factors which can influence survey results, and it depends on the survey methods used.

Thanks Jim for this info.

We would certainly be interested in receiving a copy. Please could you forward a copy to Hetty Wakeford at Sussex Ecology, since she is one who is mainly working on reptiles. I know that she does surveys for the NARRS scheme too (if that's any help). Willing to send in a donation, if you need payment for this.

I'll  have a chat with her and see if it is possible that she could pick up a copy from one of the conferences - if it is not possible to send over.

Our address is 49-51 East Road, Old Street, London N1 6AH or via email at sussexecology@hotmail.co.uk.

We would also be interested in any training courses as Sussex Ecology is always interested in attending training courses and conferences etc.

Many thanks

Robert

Thanks for your message Steve.

I must admit we try and do what we can in regards to the bare minimum. I highlighted this point because it works!

[QUOTE=GemmaJF] Hi Robert,
 
It's really good to see you being so candid on the forum regarding these issues.

I totally agree that nobody needs 'bad-mouthing' but plenty of it goes on. It really doens't help the situation at all.

I would pick-up on one point though. If H is working right now to 'clear the last of the reptiles' there is an issue regarding activity of the animals at this time of year. Is it a case of actual clearance or reduced encounter?

This is one situation where graphing the results is very useful to give confidence that we are not just seeing reduced activity. In my own experience though it's very true to say on a mitigation lasting into October I've been very well aware of 'who was left' on the site and it was just a case of making sure they were captured before 'sign off'. You may well be aware of this method but I thought I would expand on it before anyone says that it shouldn't be done at this time of year. Of course if it is now a case of destructive search it's in my opinion the ideal time when activity is low but release can still be successful.

My little tales are just a selection of those that carried a great deal of humour, the fact is though that many people are working with reptiles who have little clue regarding how to target a survey or carryout a mitigation. We really all need to get away from the 'opaque vase' analogy where people only know what has gone wrong when the vase overflows to a much more transparent situation.

My own issue with ARGs is that very often one is dealing with someone who is also a consultant. When it comes to conflict of interest we really need transparency both ways and to remember few are beyond some form of reproach perhaps at times a case of Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?


[/QUOTE]

Thank you Gemma for your comments. It is good to know as well that there are other consultants on this forum.

Thanks JIm

Fully appreciate your comments regarding the training.

Robert

[QUOTE=GemmaJF] Sorry to hear about H, hope she is well soon.

Can I ask what refuge material was used?

I don't  use tin at all these days, heavy, sharp edged and I find the window between it being too cold to produce results and too hot is narrow.

We moved over to black onduline a few years back and it gives excellent results for all 4 widespread species. When it comes to slow worms though a roll of cheap ordinary roofing felt cut onsite is really hard to beat, so we use both during mitigations if slow worm are present.

We do the same and strim out vegetation as the capture rate starts to drop away. It also works well for common lizards to concentrate them towards the refugia. At times it has been the only method to 'flush' grass snakes under refugia. Generally I only find adult grass snakes under refugia if they are sloughing, digesting or have just had most of their cover removed from the site.

The issue with timing is two fold. If we can move any gravid animals before they give birth it not only saves us capture effort of delicate juveniles but also ensures the animals are born at the receptor area which I believe gives a much better chance of a new population establishing. I've been in the position of mitigating a large project with multiple areas where our access to one area was delayed. It was small and only had a handful of common lizards present but because those females that were there gave birth it took just as long to remove the juveniles as it had to remove literally hundreds of animals off the other areas earlier in the year! It's certainly a useful lever with a client to point out if the mitigation isn't started at an optimum time it's going to take longer and cost more due to the increased effort of catching neonate animals later in the season.

[/QUOTE]

Robert has asked me to reply to your post on here......but this is being dictated to Robert as I am slightly apprehensive about posting on here.

The refugia used was roofing felt and rusty bits of corrugated iron. I personally don't like using the corrugated iron because of the sharp edges and risk to your hands. I have sometimes found it helpful to wear gloves in these cases. However, it is not easy to catch any animals in gloves as you probably know so I have given up on using them! Ouch, that's another cut on my finger!

I have found equal numbers of slow worm under both types of refugia at this site although roofing felt is probably better. On the practical side, it is easier to manage and carry around, and pick up. I find it easier to use a mix of different refugia. At the end of the day, it will depend on what you have available and how easy it is to access the site. If you have to walk miles to the survey area, it can be difficult to carry lots of corrugated iron, compared to roofing felt. I tend to find that the older bits work better.

Re: timings
It is dependant on the time of project commencing. Surveys starting later than June will take longer as I try to do at least 2 months survey work (preferably 3 months). If a project starts this late in the season, then I would sometimes recommend that the mitigation is undertaken the following spring - even if this means delaying a project.

Developers don't apprreciate that surveys and mitigation can take time. If you have a large population of slow worms,for example, this can take up to a whole season to remove, probably more. There are too many factors to take into account though because it depends on the size of the site, habitat quality, species involved and the size of the population.  Some developers may mutter ""b*****y ecologists" when this had to be the case, but in my mind you are doing them the favour by removing the whole population, rather than part of it. I would never let a development go ahead if I had an doubt about animals being left on a site. I suppose that is because I have a love for wildlife and can't bear the thought of a slow worm or common lizard being killed or injured. Gives me goosebumps to think about that.....

Robert and I agree with you about removing adults before they've given birth. Trying to find lots of juveniles/neonates is just a headache. Imagine you have a site with more than 50 female slow worms per ha. For the sake of arugment, let's say that each female gives birth to 6 young slow worms. If you do the calculations - that's a lot of young ones! On the other hand, if you move 50 adult slow worms before they've given birth and early enough in the season, it's less effort on your part!

Thanks I am much better, even though I can't be out today! Robert doesn't want me to push myself and go back to work too early...which is why I'm sat here in the office!

Gemma

Thank you for starting an interesting topic.

Robert and I have different vewpoints on this topic but I would usually recommend undertaking the survey over a whole season with more concentrated effort in the peak months (April, May, September).  This has the advantage of giving you more time to estimate population levels and fully assess the site.

If widespread species were found to be present, and assuming that this is a development site, I would then carry out the mitigation the following year and undertake over a whole season, although I would prefer more than one season for removing animals.

Hetty

[QUOTE=GemmaJF] My big drive with this thread is it the same for all species of reptiles though? They tend to get lumped together.

For example:

A 3 month survey in the spring using onduline will soon reveal if we have 'lots and lots', 'lots', 'not very many' lizards. This would be a case for me where I would be happy to survey and mitigate in one season. I would think it totally unnecessary to extend the survey period and simply repeat the same results for a whole season when the mitigation could be started and completed with a high degree of confidence.

[/QUOTE]

In this situation, I would be happy to start mitigation in the same year. 

If a job comes in, let's say in March, then I would spend between April and June doing a survey, with increased effort in April and May -the peak months for reptile activity. I would do a minimum of 20 surveys in the right weather conditions.

On the other hand, if you undertook a survey over a whole season (March-September) and started the mitigation the following spring - this is likely to create conflict between you and the developer.

At what point would I then start the mitigation process? Ideally, the sooner, the better.  Depends on the species and population level. For low populations of widespread species can be completed in the same season (excluding adder, grass snake). 

If I am dealing with a large densitiy of slow worms, then yes I would start the mitigation process in the same year and as early as possible. I agree with your earlier comment in another thread that moving animals before they've given birth should be a preferred option.

It's not always that simple though. I think developers, and maybe inexperienced surveyors, underestimate the amount of time it can take to have the mitigation/capture effort completed.

My preference would be to try and retain the reptiles on site, or at least encourage them to move into adjacent areas that have suitable habitat and erect reptile fencing. However, if you are not able to do this and translocation is the only option you have, this could change things. This is why I will always try to find out from the developers exactly what they are planning to do with the site, and if necessary locate a receptor as early as possible.

Bear in mind that developers can change their minds with regards to retaining habitats on the site. In this situation, the mitigation process may be delayed, and is just a headache.

Finding a suitable receptor site (if you have to do translocation) and one that is as close to the site as possible is not always as straightforward as you might like. If you are dealing with rare reptiles, it takes time to find a suitable receptor site, particularly sand lizard.

The level of effort required should never be compromised where the consultant is forced to jump loopholes. That's unfair on the consultant and on the reptile population. I can't believe that NE made someone go by the FrogLife guidance.

I think that the new guidelines should include different levels of effort required for mitigation - but it has to be common sense, realistic, based on solid survey data and is workable by everyone who is involved with reptile mitigation.

I will add some more comments later as I am meant to be off today!

Hi Ben

You could try a course with the IEEM.

They do a whole range of courses and these are aimed at different levels as well and there are some which focus on GCN. I don't know about the FSC courses for next year but I would recommend trying the IEEM first, since you don't need to be a member to attend these.

Hope that helps.

Congratulations Ben on your first sighting of the year.

I havent' seen any amphibians or reptiles yet but then I haven't started looking yet. Think it might be an early start this year and I'm not even ready for the survey season yet!

Hetty

Hi Robert

Nice pic!

Re the Adnois Blue - how big was the butterfly?

Also - what type of habitat was it photographed in?

Not convinced that it is adnois blue. Looks more like common blue, but you never know!

cheers

Hetty

Hi all

Just wondering if anyone on here is going to the Herp Workers Meeting next weekend ?

Weather might be a bit chilly. Looks like an interesting programme though....and a nice excuse to go to Cardiff for the weekend!

Hi Lee

Good to see you around here.

Good question regarding the adders and thank you for posting this thread on here.

I would go with the advice of using data from early in the year to determine hibernation sites and then look at potential habitat where they could disperse. To be honest,I don't think you are really going to know unless you do very intensive survey work (ie photographing each one seen in the early part of the year, compared to those seen in the summer.

Good luck and let me know how you get on. I'll be doing some adder surveys this year and will forward you any data that is collected, particularly on hibernation sites and animals found in the summer. It is an interesting topic and one that I have always been fascinated by- but these adders don't always read the books!!