RAUK - Archived Forum - Posts by garyf:

Hi folks, just popped in to see if anyone can help with the following.

Last weekend, whilst out walking in the Mendips, we heard squeals from a grassy bank.  I climbed-up to investigate and found a stoat and rabbit in a small dip.  The stoat was several feet from the rabbit and didn't appear excited or agitated.  It quickly disappeared into the undergrowth so I stepped over to inspect the rabbit, which seemed barely alive (photo 1).  As I picked it up there was a hissing noise and my son, who had just arrived on the scene, immediately pointed down and yelled "adder!".  A few inches from my foot was a large and unhappy female adder.  I leapt aside and the adder slipped off into the grass.  Although the rabbit was completely paralysed (just breathing and blinking) we could find no obvious wounds so placed it back where we found it to let nature take its course.

On returning two hours later the rabbit hadn't moved but looked much better. We caught it up again (took some doing this time) and gave it another inspection. Turned out that we'd missed a swollen bite-wound on its rib cage; four perfect punctures with no tearing of flesh, one pair from an upper jaw and another set from the lower (photo 2). The upper pair were larger, farther apart and deeper than the lower two, which were little more than pin-pricks. The wound didn't look serious and the rib cage should have prevented damage to internal organs. One of the rabbit's hind legs (nearest wound) was still completely paralysed and its other hind leg was also weak, but other than that it was now reasonably healthy and alert.

So I'm puzzling over what was going on. The rabbit, adder and stoat were all in a dip about 2 metres by 1 metre. If the adder was basking when the stoat caught the rabbit then the commotion would surely have scared it off? First thoughts were that the stoat caught the rabbit and its squeals (which continued for several minutes) attracted the adder, which then began stalking the stoat. However on reflection there are several things that don't add up:-

Hi Peter, thanks for reply.

I've tried to PM Iowarch but it says he's exceeded his PM limit.

Unfortunately I only have one pic of the bite and it wasn't a very good one anyway (rabbit was struggling).  In reality, once I'd located the wound you could very clearly see two large red spots with two smaller pin-pricks an inch or so below.  The four punctures were symmetrical about the vertical plane and immediately looked like a bite from upper and lower teeth, with the lower teeth a lot smaller and closer together than the upper.  The punctures lay at the centre of a wider, swollen area.  It was the swelling that led me to the wound.    

Gary

Thanks all for responses and thanks chris for photos.  One photo shows my daughter cradling the paralysed rabbit (when first found), and another shows the bite - it's not very clear but does give an idea of gape and spacing of teeth.

The rabbit was completely incapacitated when picked up and quite incapable of giving the stoat a kick.  However I'm sure Peter is right; an adder bite is less likely to result in protracted squealing so the finger of guilt points closer to the stoat.  I've also kept/worked ferrets and raised a weasel from a tiny kit so know the mustelids well; there's no doubt that the stoat was behaving in an unusual way.  However it wasn't showing any signs of injury and I'm now wondering if, as Peter suggested, a prolonged tussle happened to tumble into the dip and end-up next to the adder (the area is crawling with them) but, rather than the stoat getting bitten, perhaps when it spotted the adder at close quarters some innate and very strong instinct took over that said "jump away" - same as it did for me.  Having released the rabbit and composed itself the stoat may then have been confused about what to do next.  Then again it's still odd that it wasn't agitated; I would expect any self-respecting stoat to be prancing around, with bushy tail, swearing at the adder.  I've tried a quick google but can't find anything on stoat v snake behaviour, will try again tomorrow.  

With two pairs of wounds the bite mark also seems closer to a stoat's than a typical adder bite.  However it's been suggested that the pair of smaller punctures might be caused by the part in an adder's lower jaw that's used to grip prey.  Having looked at pics of an adder's mouth this does seem possible, does anyone know if it happens in practice?  

Thanks, once more, for your help.

Gary

Ok, so that's the adder ruled out.  Looks like the rabbit was the stoat's lunch but somehow the two became separated.  Exactly how the adder fitted into things... well who knows.

Thanks for everyone's help.  It's been an interesting discussion and I now know a bit more about adder's teeth!

Gary

Hi Paul, tried to respond to PM but wouldnÆt send because your inbox is full.

No, it definitely wasn't myxied.  When first found its eyes were half closed, like it was dying, but they weren't swollen or lumpy. Other than that (and the bite wound) it appeared fine on the outside. 

Hi all, thanks for posts.

The rabbit was definitely healthy - plump and well-groomed.  Over the years I've caught many rabbits with hawks and, as you say, you can soon recognise the diseased ones.  They are thin and weak with patchy/matted fur.  Sometimes they smell pretty awful too.  This one had none of that and after a couple of hours was lively and alert, I only managed to recapture it because of the leg paralysis. 

The incident took place in the middle of a grassy area and the rabbit warrens were under nearby bramble bushes.  I would guess that the nearest (obvious) adder hibernation site was a dry stone wall approx 50 metres away.  Time was early/mid afternoon and it had been sunny all day, so I assume the adder was warmed-up and out hunting by then?  However, maybe it had stopped in the hollow for a top-up bask?

Not sure we'll ever get to the bottom of it, but from other posts it does seem like the adder was the innocent party. 

Gary