RAUK - Archived Forum - Posts by Jim Finnie:

Vicar,

Many thanks for the link. I think they were 'smooth snakes' that I saw.

As well as being interested in ornithology I have been a fresh water angler for more years than I care to remember. On numerous occasions I have seen Grass Snakes in the water, or on the bank, I am pretty sure that I could reliably identify one of those. Over the years I have also seen the occasional adder, in my experience they are difficult to mistake. So, my original message was prompted by a process of ellimination!

I'm not sure that I should give the Grid Reference here and now, but I can say that the sighting was on high ground, WELL away from water, which presumably again suggests other than a Grass Snake. I would be very happy to share accurate sighting location details off-line with an appropriate coordinator, or similar.

Chris,

I have sent you the detailed directions by email.

Hi Chris and Lee,

In birding we always look to the most likely identification, rather than the exotic. I guess the same applies to snakes. From what I have read in recent days it does seem unlikely to have been Smooth Snakes. On the other hand I think that they were neither Adders nor Grass Snakes, but I am no expert!

Perhaps if I say a little more about my sightings it will help in the identification. I was moving in an area of dense underfoot vegetation. It was clumpy soil covered by long, dense, very dry grass. Because of this I was placing my feet with care (very slow progress). Looking down I had my first sighting as I was about to place my right foot. The snake was beating a hasty retreat ahead of me and to my right. I was immediately struck by how thin it was. I would describe it as pencil thin, about 50cm long and, I think, grey or pale olive green in colour. But colouring was difficult to accurately evaluate because it was moving rapidly through well lit as well as shaded areas. I only saw its top and It was in view for only a few moments. I noticed nether markings or scales, it seemed to be smooth skinned and uniform in colour. A few steps later I saw the second snake, very short but of the same colouring etc û simply a shorter version of the first one!

Given the presence of a juvenile (?) perhaps they were both very young snakes, could this explain matters?

Hope this helps, I wouldnÆt want you going on a wild goose chase. J

Jim

I'm new to this, so apologies if this is old hat:

Imagine a bag containing an unknown number of white marbles. Now add, for example, 5 black marbles which are otherwise identical to the white ones. Next spend some time withdrawing, noting the colour of the withdrawn marble, then putting it back in the bag. You can make an increasingly accurate estimate of the total population from the emerging ratio of drawn black and white marbles. If, for example, after 100 withdrawals and replacements the tally is 50 black and 50 white, we can conclude that there are probably 5 white marbles.

The key is to have a known number of recognisable individual reptiles or black marbles!. The withdrawals and replacements are of course sightings.

Hope this helps .