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Posts by herpvet:

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herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 30 Nov 2006 Topic: what happens if you... Hi Just a comment here that while I agree the reptile isn't likely to do you much/any damage, you also need to consider possible damage to the reptile. Apart from the stress of being handled (probably not inconsiderable for a wild reptile), it is very easy for an inexperienced person to damage the reptile either directly, through too tight holding or dropping it. Also while biting you might not hurt you, any snatching away of the hand could lead to serious damage to the reptile's mouth (or even the whole reptile). So I would always advise that any handling should only be carried out if you have appropiate experience or have been shown how. Whether the simple stress of gentle handling will cause the reptile significant problems is arguable, but it's generally unnecessary. While I appreciate that contact with these animals is usually good for the person, there are plenty of ways of getting such contact with tame, handling-habituated reptiles (at zoos/private reptile displays). Wild animals should not generally be disturbed without good reason. Just my personal thoughts. Bruce. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 15 Jan 2007 Topic: Ranavirus Hi, There are reports that populations may recover following an outbreak, although I'm not aware of significant research in this area (whether development of resistance, die-off of the virus or other cause). One question though, are you sure (had it confirmed in a laboratory) that it was/is ranavirus? There are several possible amphibian diseases with a potentially similar presentation, some of which are treatable, and it is worth getting any ill frogs treated/examined by a veterinary surgeon or dead frogs tested at a lab. Hope this helps. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 26 Feb 2007 Topic: Whatos this? Hi, From the appearance and location, I would say that some sort of cloacal prolapse would be the only likelihood. A vet may be able to help the frog, and you should try to get the frog to a vet willing to treat wildlife for treatment. Prolapses are unfortunately quite prone to recurrence however, even with surgical correction. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 07 May 2007 Topic: Grass snakes with acne Hi, Do you have pictures of the lumps? Blister disease in snakes is often reported to be associated with damp conditions. Unless obviously blisters, the majority of lumps in reptiles are abscesses, which will usually need surgical drainage as well as possible antibiotics, but other causes are possible, such as tumours. Fatty lumps are common in captivity, but not on the nose, and would be unlikely in a wild individual. Vitamin C deficiency is thought to be associated with some skin problems in snakes, but generally skin fragility rather than any lumps. Skin condition will to a certain extent be affected by nutrition generally, but little specific is known - vitamin A deficiency causes mucous membrane changes, but this is usually around the eyelids or mouth. It is not usually recorded in snakes however. being far more common in aquatic chelonia. I would suggest getting your captive snake to a vet for clinical evaluation, as treatment of some sort may well be necessary. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 08 May 2007 Topic: Grass snakes with acne Hi Alan, Glad to hear you got it sorted. Just in case you're unaware, if you ever find obviously ill wild herps, most vets should treat wildlife for free (though check with your vet!). Cheers, Bruce. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 13 May 2007 Topic: injured slow worm ? cat bite Hi Eleanor, I would recommend getting the slow worm to a vet, as cat wounds (which are quite common in slow worms) tend to be contaminated by various nasty bacteria. During normal hours, most vets should treat wild animals for free. If the wounds are deep, you need to be very careful about using antiseptics - salt water is probably the safest and best option. However, I wouldn't do any major cleaning until it has been assesed by a vet - depending on the wounds, sedation/anaesthesia and flushing may be necessary. Hope this helps. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 14 May 2007 Topic: injured slow worm ? cat bite Hi Eleanor, Glad to hear, hope the vet can help. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 23 May 2007 Topic: bulging corn snake Hi Mike, I have to urge you to get your snake to a vet. Trying to guess a diagnosis, sight unseen (or even from pictures) is very unreliable, and potentially endangering your snake. It needs professional assessment and where appropriate, suitable further diagnostic tests. I hope you can get him/her sorted out. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 23 May 2007 Topic: Grass snakes with acne Hi Alan, The main theoretical risk would be due to the fact that baytril (enrofloxacin) affects cartilage in growing animals (it is not recommended in growing mammals). However, no study, as far as I am aware, has demonstrated any such problem in reptiles (and reptiles might in theory be more susceptible, since some at least continue growing throughout life). This risk seems to be generally considered minimal in reptiles. High doses have been associated with retinal problems leading to blindness in cats; the mechanism is still not well understood as far as I'm aware, so it is difficult to comment on the likelihood in baby snakes. It's never been recorded as a side-effect in reptiles to my knowledge. Other recorded side effects are local (injection site reactions) or short-term (regurgitation, frothing, hypersenstivity reactions) so should not be an issue. All of which is a very complicated way of saying it's possible but not enough is known to give any reasonable prediction! : ) Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 26 Jun 2008 Topic: Humane despatch of marsh frog Hello, Freezing is NOT considered humane for any species, as far I aware, and should not be used. Ideally overdose of anesthetic should be used - introcoelomic pentobarbitone, or MS 222 overdose, would be preferable, although give the hypoxia resistance of amphibians I would always follow this up with a physical method (pithing/freezing (if contact with anaesthetic is maintained)/dissection if tissues required). Clove oil from a chemist, up to 10 drops per litre of water to effect (must be emulsified in a small amount of warm water first) can also be used to deeply/terminally anaesthetise the amphibian. Hope this helps. Bruce. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 26 Jun 2008 Topic: Humane despatch of marsh frog Hi, As far as I know, it's only recorded for fish and amphibians. With reptiles you would have difficulty getting in into them adequately since soaking would be unlikely to work, at least in a reasonable time in reptiles. I would guess in theory intracoelomic injections of clove oil might work in reptiles, but basically in practice the simple answer would be not use it in reptiles. With reptiles I would definitely go the pentobarbitone route - you should be able to work with a local vet for that. I would recommend going to a vet for amphibians and fish also for inexperienced people, but it is a sad fact that many people won't. Rapid physical brain destruction by a sharp crushing of the head is humane, if you can do it properly. [QUOTE=adamanteus] Clove oil from a chemist, up to 10 drops per litre of water to effect (must be emulsified in a small amount of warm water first) can also be used to deeply/terminally anaesthetise the amphibian. Just out of curiosity, Bruce, would this work for reptiles? Or is it purely a method used on amphibians? [/QUOTE] Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 26 Sep 2008 Topic: poorly grass snake Hi, I am still here! Been a bit hectic recently. Difficult to be specific about the eye damage from the pic - I'd get it to a local vet if possible (where in Wales are you?) for a physical examination of the eye. It's important to see (if possible) if there is any damage under the spectacle as well as on the surface. The damage could have been from various things - I've seen similar lesions from subspectacular infection mainly, but also trauma (although not the sort that's likely in this case - owner tried to remove a retained eyecap with sellotape...). Flagellate subspectacular infections seem to occur not uncommonly in captive snakes, although I've never diagnosed it in a wild grass snake. Either way, some sort of treatment looks like it would be very helpful to this guy! I'm quite happy tio discuss treatment options with the local vet if they wish. Best wishes, Bruce. (Herpvet) Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 26 Sep 2008 Topic: We chopped off a toad�s legs.... Hi, Sorry to chime in so late, but just a suggestion that you try to establish a good relationship with a local vet. The amputation described would preferably be done under anaesthesia with appropriate pain relief. Antibiotic cover initially may also have helped its chances. I personally would also suggest that in the case described, the toad should be kept in captivity for a few days until you are happy that there is no infection in the wounds, although whether that's the best option is perhaps arguable. Bruce. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 27 Sep 2008 Topic: poorly grass snake Hi Dave, Not a clear-cut decision! In theory it's not recommended to hibernate pet reptiles that are not 100% fit, as the immune system drops off drastically during hibernation, so from a purely medical view treatment would certainly be recommended. I'm not aware of any reliable figures for hibernation mortality in native reptiles off-hand (does anyone have any?), but the same considerations apply. However, it's not ideal to be treating this close to hibernation, particularly if you can't break it out of hibernation mode. Obviously it does to a certain extent depend on your views on interfering with wildlife, as well. If possible I would suggest catching it up and at least evaluating the lesion fully. It may be something that would clear up with a few days topical treatment, although often it's difficult to properly assess such lesions until the following shed. But with a damaged eye (or any other break in the surface defences) I would think the risk of infection by microorganisms during hibernation would be much increased. In theory most microorganisms are also slowed at hibernation temperatures, but not all. Hope this helps! Bruce. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 22 Oct 2008 Topic: poorly grass snake Did I hear mention of the Herp Vet above??? Can you tell me, what would a vet need (an infected Natrix?) to be able to test to see whether the nasal infections being seen in Grassies in the last couple of years can be a mutation of myximatosis? If Avian flu can jump to humans when in close contact, then does it follow that Myxy can do the same to reptiles? [/QUOTE] Hi Rob, Mark's answered the basic question - like he says, never say never in biology but...few viruses will infect (as opposed to possible passive transport) different classes of animals, and with the possible exception of west nile virus I'm not aware of any that cause disease in both endotherms and ectotherms. So I would say it's extremely unlikely. Testing for viruses is unfortunately expensive and difficult to be sure a negative really is negative in reptiles. If you're seeing a disease though, it would certainly be worth getting one or more infected animals to a sympathetic vet. Investigations for various possilbe pathogens could be undertaken (bacterial, mycoplasma, Chlamydophila , fungi) as well as viral testing. The problem would be funding these tests of course. Where are you seeing these infections? Have you had any treated? What outcome? I'd be very interested to learn more. Cheers, Bruce. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 24 Oct 2008 Topic: poorly grass snake Hi, I'd certainly be happy to help with clinical work (treatments/taking samples) in any way that I can, if anyone can get affected animals to me (I'm based in Reading). My time and drug costs would of course be free, but lab costs might have to be covered by a grant or something. I can speak to the lab I use, but I'd need some definite cases coming before that. Just thinking that in terms of potential pathogens, more likely candidates might be ranavirus (or even chytrid I suppose though less likely) from frogs - there are ranaviruses that affect reptiles. Bruce. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 25 Oct 2008 Topic: poorly grass snake Hi Mark, Some thoughts etc on your questions below: [QUOTE=Mark_b] >>Any idea the cost for each sample in the lab? This would assist me >>in choosing which grants to look at Depends on the lab and samples - my minimum lab costs (commercial vet lab) off the top of my head (which by agreement might be reduced by the lab) would be in the region of �60 for full microbiology (checking for bacteria, fungi and acid fast organisms) on pus/smears, �60+ for histopathology on single tissue sample (up to maybe �100 + if doing multiple tissues, e.g. from post mortem specimens), �100 + for viral testing. If really going for a full work up (adding blood profile, radiography) �120 + could be added to that! Obviously this would depend very much on the lab, and to a certain extent what any vet involved charged for time etc. Vets will usually (should) treat wild animals for free, but there's obviously a limit to the costs they can afford to cover. If you'd be using a local vet, see what they say. DEFRA (or whatever it's called today ) labs might be persuaded to donate viral testing for free as it's wildlife disease investigation, but I wouldn't count on it . >>Also what samples would be needed? Finding a fresh dead grassie >>that appears to have died from this infection would be good, but in >>terms of taking samples from live individuals? Swabs or >>actually samples of infected flesh? Licences would be needed from >>the council I assume because its a wild animal, Wildlife and >>countryside act etc. For investigations a freshly dead animal allows more complete examination, which would be ideal from the research/info point of view. However, it would have to be fresh - the useful info that can be gained drops off fairly quickly with time since death (depending obviously on conditions), and much more than 24 h (48 h if refridgerated) after death the usefulness and reliability of any info is much reduced. Frozen tissues are useless for histopathology. On the other hand viral electron microscopy can be done on frozen tissue. Swabs/smears would give the basic microbiological info, probably the minimum info, but biopsies of affected tissue would be useful to clarify significance of any organisms found. Obviously the biopsies would require anaesthesia in a live animal. As far as I'm aware licences would not be an issue, since the vet would be treating the animal. No licence is needed for a vet to treat widlife, and although it is carrying out research in one sense, any tests etc are for the direct medical benefit of the animal and thus do not need to be licensed under the animal procedures act. Any comparison samples from apparently healthy grass snakes would be more of an issue though. >>Obviously we aren�t going to see any grass snakes until spring now, >>but all these things have to be planned, grants & licences have to >>be applied for in advance Hope this helps, Bruce. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 04 Dec 2008 Topic: Pics of adders, +others, wanted Hi all, I'm writing an article on veterinary care of wild reptile/amphibian casualties in a veterinary publication, and I wondered if anyone would be willing to help with some pictures? They are for identification purposes - I do refer people to various identification websites in the article (including this one), but it would be helpful to have pictures printed there as well. I could particularly do with several pics of adders (since this is the dangerous one that vets need to be able to identify), but good ones of "typical" smooth snake, common lizard, sand lizard, great crested and palmate newts and natterjack toad would also be much appreciated. The provider would be acknowledged within the article. Thanks very much in advance for any help. Bruce. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 12 Jan 2009 Topic: Reptile Survey, best practice guidelines Hi Jon, Just a quick thought (from a vet's viewpoint) - maybe worth mentioning guidelines for dealing with injured/ill animals if any are found, if you're including advice on handling? Not sure if you have a policy on this? Bruce. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

herpvet Member Joined: 30 Oct 2006 No. of posts: 30 View other posts in this topic	Posted: 13 Jan 2009 Topic: Reptile Survey, best practice guidelines Hi Jon, They certainly should be treated free of charge by vets, although the vets may or may not be happy with dealing with herps and may refer you to another vet. Cheers, Bruce. Bruce Maclean, Bird & Exotic Animal Veterinary Services.

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