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RAUK - Archived Forum - Aesculapian snake

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Aesculapian snake:

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djp_phillips
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Joined: 09 Jan 2006
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Posted: 30 Jan 2006
What's going on with the introduction of the Aesculapian snake in
britain?, I heard some time back that they found some in the wild...
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Dan Kane
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Posted: 30 Jan 2006

Yes, a gravid female escaped from a zoo near Colwyn Bay, N Wales, layed eggs, and hey presto... There's now a population of Aesculapian Snakes...

I may try to find some one day soon...


Dan

www.randacumbria.moonfruit.com
djp_phillips
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Posted: 30 Jan 2006
but there is only a clutchfull in britain then, they won't be able to
reproduce between them...?
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Dan Kane
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Posted: 30 Jan 2006
I think they may have bred, but im not sure, as i've forgotten where I read it
Dan

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Vicar
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Posted: 30 Jan 2006

http://icnorthwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/regionalnews/page.c fm?method=full&objectid=12858930#story_continue


Steve Langham - Chairman    
Surrey Amphibian & Reptile Group (SARG).
djp_phillips
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Posted: 30 Jan 2006
but if only one female escaped, the babies wouldn't be able to
interbreed... I think
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GemmaJF
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Posted: 31 Jan 2006

Why not? It is widely thought that many populations are spawned by a single gravid female.

The question would be the long-term viability of the population with a total absence of novel genes that would normally be supplied by immigration from adjacent populations. Time will tell, if this population is viable or if the population succumbs to inbreeding depression and loss of vitality in future generations.

 

PS wouldn't this thread have been more appropriately placed in the alien or naturalised forums? This one is for UK native species


Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant
Alan Hyde
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Joined: 17 Apr 2003
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Posted: 31 Jan 2006
Yup, Snakes can and do interbreed
O-> O+>
Dan Kane
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Posted: 31 Jan 2006

Yes, it would've been more at home in alien species.

Next time...


Dan

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djp_phillips
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Posted: 31 Jan 2006
Ah, ok, so they will breed then, that's interesting
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Dan Kane
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Posted: 31 Jan 2006

I didn't know families bred with each brother and sister...

Well, you learn something new every day...


Dan

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djp_phillips
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Posted: 31 Jan 2006
well yes they can apparently, but then they have genetic defaults
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Dan Kane
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Posted: 01 Feb 2006

Oh...

Why's that then?


Dan

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djp_phillips
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Posted: 01 Feb 2006
well there would be no new genes in their offspring, like as if you had a
baby with your sister.

You know what would appen there, malformation of the baby.

I think it is a similar thing for snakes, although the malformation is less
visible
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Wolfgang Wuster
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Posted: 13 Feb 2006
The Colwyn Bay Aesculapians are doing nicely, and appear to be breeding all or most years - there is certainly a good population there, and there is no evidence of malformations.

Inbreeding can often but not always lead to malformations - a lot depends on pot luck, namely what genes were present in the founder population. After all, most populations of any kind of organism on oceanic islands are likely to have been founded by a very small number indeed of founder individuals. If inbreeding always led to malformations, there would be no island populations of most species.

Cheers,

WW

Wolfgang Wüster
School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor
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Tony Phelps
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Joined: 09 Mar 2003
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Posted: 14 Feb 2006
Tis certainly true for Island snake populations, e.g. the Milos Viper has been seperated from the mainland for between 5-4million years.

Although there are oddities, if I can call it that, such as the golden lanchead on Quimeda Grande which has a large proportion of intersex individuals - but still a viable population.

Tony
Wolfgang Wuster
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Posted: 15 Feb 2006
[QUOTE=Tony Phelps] Tis certainly true for Island snake populations, e.g. the Milos Viper has been seperated from the mainland for between 5-4million years.

Although there are oddities, if I can call it that, such as the golden lanchead on Quimeda Grande which has a large proportion of intersex individuals - but still a viable population.

Tony [/QUOTE]

The Milos viper and Bothrops insularis represent a slightly different kettle of fish. Where island populations are caused by islands being separated from the mainland, as in the case of Milos or indeed Queimada Grande, then the founder stock is likely to have been large and the likelihood of inbreeding effects smaller. The fact that you do get what appear to be inbreeding effects in Bothrops insularis illustrates the "pot luck" effect concerning the genes in the population at the time of isolation or colony foundation.

However, if existing, isolated islands are initially colonised by overwater dispersal, then the founder stock is likely to have been very small indeed (single figures) - and yet, there are thousands of island species that must have originated in this way. Of course, we only know the success stories, because those species are still around, not the species that died out soon after the initial colonisation event due to inbreeding.

Cheers,

WolfgangWolfgang Wuster38763.2749305556
Wolfgang Wüster
School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor
http://sbsweb.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/
GemmaJF
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View other posts by GemmaJF
Posted: 15 Feb 2006

One interesting aspect of inbreeding depression is, at least theoretically, it is just that a 'depression' in a given populations genetic variability.

There are models to show that if a species is not limited by biotic factors it is likely that as the population increases in numbers so will genetic variability. Thus eventually it may be possible for a population with relatively few founders to move beyond inbreeding and become entirely viable with an increasing gene pool.

The opposite scenario might occur if the animals were to be heavily limited by biotic factors and overall the numbers of reproductive individuals remained low, deleterious alleles would be bound to come together and eventually spell doom for the population.

Examples that spring to mind are the very small number of marsh frogs originally thought to have been introduced into Kent which have thrived, compared, dare I say it, to an isolated adder population which might be ageing with little or low recruitment and no chance of an overall increase in reproductive individuals.

Which direction any given population would take would depend as Wolfgang has already stated very much on the actual genes present in the founder individuals. This influencing the early viability of the population and very much coupled to factors present in the populations environment such as availability of food, competition, predation, suitability of habitat etc. etc. etc.


Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant

- Aesculapian snake

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