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Early young in 2009: |
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Chris Monk Senior Member Joined: 21 Apr 2004 No. of posts: 157  View other posts by Chris Monk |
Posted: 10 Jul 2009 Like last year (see Robert's topic in this section "1st neo of 2008"), there seem to be newly hatched grass snakes out already. Natalie Walker reported coming across a neonate yesterday (9th) alongside the M1 on the Derbyshire /Yorkshire border. Several others last year reported very small grass snake hatchlings in the first week of July 2008. Anyone else seen them this year ? Derbyshire Amphibian & Reptile Group www.derbyshirearg.co.uk |
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-LAF Senior Member Joined: 03 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 317 View other posts by -LAF |
Posted: 11 Jul 2009 This seems unfathomably early for this years hatchlings, I've only recently found post natal females (early June) down in the Cotswolds. No neo common lizards yet (although I expect them in the next week or two down here). I'd put good money on any apparent hatchlings being last years. Lee Fairclough |
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will Senior Member Joined: 27 Feb 2007 No. of posts: 330 View other posts by will |
Posted: 11 Jul 2009 I'd agree; most females yet to lay in London area; here's a 'baby' from two days ago which is presumably a late hatcher from last autumn  |
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dave fixx Senior Member Joined: 13 Mar 2007 No. of posts: 319  View other posts by dave fixx |
Posted: 11 Jul 2009 I came accross a baby grass snake in June which I could have sworn was from this year but couldnt have been as they were only laying then. 
Dave Williams davewilliamsphotography.co.uk |
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Chris Monk Senior Member Joined: 21 Apr 2004 No. of posts: 157 View other posts by Chris Monk |
Posted: 12 Jul 2009 I've not seen the animal but John Newton had told Natalie that he had seen very early mating behaviour in grass snakes in Yorkshire this year. In last year's thread on the forum these small ones don't seem to be seen any earlier than July, whereas very small adders born the previous year can be found early in the year. Derbyshire Amphibian & Reptile Group www.derbyshirearg.co.uk |
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Paul Ford Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2006 No. of posts: 124 View other posts by Paul Ford |
Posted: 13 Jul 2009 What about the females who mate in September/October? Presumably they must lay their eggs quite early in the year? Paul
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will Senior Member Joined: 27 Feb 2007 No. of posts: 330 View other posts by will |
Posted: 13 Jul 2009 Hi Paul Is it proven that eggs can be fertilised in autumn and remain viable over winter ? I don't know myself. Also do we know how common autumn matings are ? Cheers Will |
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Paul Ford Senior Member Joined: 06 Sep 2006 No. of posts: 124 View other posts by Paul Ford |
Posted: 13 Jul 2009 [QUOTE=will]Hi Paul Hi Will, I have absolutely no idea! I would like to think though that hibernation just slows everything down so fertilised eggs could remain viable!? (and if they are found not to be viable would this mean that grass snakes indulge in recreational sex Actually, I have wondered whether the autumn matings are triggered simply by the conditions being the same (ie warm sunshine, fairly cool air temps etc - probably a more realistic scenario methinks!) On the Mendips autumn matings seems quite common. Paul
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-LAF Senior Member Joined: 03 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 317 View other posts by -LAF |
Posted: 14 Jul 2009 What about this... if you can get hatchling grassies in July in Derbys, then why not in September in Scotland? I'm still trying to track down mating to egg-laying stats for UK grassies, but hatching times for the eggs are 40-42 days under ideal conditions in the UK. Purportedly, it can be 35 days in Italy, but the window for fattening up outside of the egg is larger there, as is the maximum recorded brood number (vis-a-vis, smaller eggs equals smaller hatchlings with more time to feed and smaller eggs facilitate higher brood numbers). Lee Fairclough |
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Robert V Senior Member Joined: 06 Aug 2004 No. of posts: 717 View other posts by Robert V |
Posted: 23 Jul 2009 Lee, who said 40 odd days? I've had three clutches under perfect conditions, 63-66 days. Rob RobV |
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dave fixx Senior Member Joined: 13 Mar 2007 No. of posts: 319 View other posts by dave fixx |
Posted: 08 Aug 2009 This is a baby which I am fairly sure is one of this years young .We found it in a small but prolific area on my local site.The only puzzling factor is the lack of any obvious egg laying sites within a hundred yards or so. Do the neonates disperse this sort of distance immediately ? Dave  Dave Williams davewilliamsphotography.co.uk |
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Adam-T Member Joined: 05 Jul 2009 No. of posts: 4  View other posts by Adam-T |
Posted: 11 Aug 2009 Excellent pic Dave ! .. Regarding Babies, here`s the shot from Sunday, the elusive one under the refuge, well hidden (I`ve blown it up on the right)
Adam |
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JohnBaker Member Joined: 21 Nov 2003 No. of posts: 5 View other posts by JohnBaker |
Posted: 11 Aug 2009 Hi Chris, I've found very small grass snakes at unexpected times of the year. e.g. one weighing 4 g in May 07 and another weighing 3 g in May 08. This is pretty much the weight of hatchlings. This year I found another ten tiny grass snakes in June. I didn't weigh these, but they looked hatchling size. I assume that these are simply babies that have got off to a bad start in life and did not manage to grow at all between hatching and the following spring. Given the cool summers of 2007 and 2008 it doesn't seem unreasonable to think that hatchlings might be appearing late in the year and going into hibernation without feeding and some of them still not managing to put on weight the following spring. John Baker John Baker |
- Early young in 2009 |
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