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RAUK - Archived Forum - Egg protection advice

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Egg protection advice:

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woodlyme
Member
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
No. of posts: 11


View other posts by woodlyme
Posted: 13 Aug 2010
I recently uncovered a very large clutch of eggs in a
compost heap. It was too late to preserve the original
location, so I reburied them further back, hopefully at
about the same depth. How critical is the eggs'
environment? Are these likely to be OK? Having read that 40
eggs would be a large clutch, I am now a little tempted to
try to count them more accurately, since my rough estimate
was 50+ at the time, but I don't want to risk their
viability. I would also really like to keep an eye on their
progress. Any advice please?
will
Senior Member
Joined: 27 Feb 2007
No. of posts: 330


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Posted: 14 Aug 2010
Great find - well done; your compost heap is evidently grass snake friendly.  I'd advise you to rebury them at the same depth in what remains of the heap.  They shouldn't be far off hatching now, I reckon.  You want some warmth (use a thermometer to probe the temp at various depths before reburying them ?) but not too much, of course.  If you have a single clutch of 50 that would be pretty rare, but several females often lay together, which can lead to the appearance of a singly egg  mass (rather like clumps of frogspawn stick together).  Once you are sure the eggs have hatched (end of Sept/ early Oct to be sure) then dig up the eggs and see if you can make out separate clutches or just one big mass of eggs.  As far as watching the eggs goes, I don't know how you'd do this, or that you'd see much of interest, until the first tiny head appears from the egg.  If you put some matting or thin board on the heap, the hatchlings will be more evident as they enjoy the warmth of these objects
Cheers

Will

herpetologic2
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
No. of posts: 1369


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Posted: 16 Aug 2010
Where are you? if you need to some help there are people
who have experience in recovering grass snake eggs and
hatching them artificially - I know a person who has
rescued over 80 eggs over three years from a working
stable and has had great success in hatching them.

Other people have also hatched them artificially - though
this would be a last resort after the heap has been
rebuilt.

Contact your local ARG if you have one www.arguk.org and
they could advise further aswell

Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant -
visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife
woodlyme
Member
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
No. of posts: 11


View other posts by woodlyme
Posted: 06 Sep 2010
Thanks for the good advice. I think it was two clutches
then, which makes me even more concerned about them
hatching! I am now very worried about the heat issue, since
I suspect the mother had chosen a spot (no longer
accessible) in maximum sunlight,
and the weather since I disturbed them has been cooler. It
would seem prudent to consider hatching some of them
artificially. I am in Surrey, so I'll try to contact the
local ARG.woodlyme40427.4961921296
Suzi
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2005
No. of posts: 860


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Posted: 06 Sep 2010
I guess sometimes grass snakes know where will be suitable to lay. Is maximum sunlight necessary? Vegetation, sawdust and muck heaps generate their own heat. Just an idea.
Suz
woodlyme
Member
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
No. of posts: 11


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Posted: 07 Sep 2010
Good point; I should have said that they are in an old
heap. As far as I can tell it is not generating heat. I
should try to get hold of a suitable thermometer to check;
any suggestions, and what temperature should they be at?
JohnBaker
Member
Joined: 21 Nov 2003
No. of posts: 5


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Posted: 08 Sep 2010

Simon Townson published an article on grass snake eggs reared at different temps (BHS Bulletin 34).  Although working with small sample sizes, 27-28oC worked well.  In a similar situation to this thread, I have incubated grass snake eggs artificially (compost heap destroyed).  I think this option works well if you feel you have a 'feel' for captive care of herps.  Eggs placed in damp vermiculite and kept in airing cupboard, temp upper twenties.  Note, snake eggs collapse a little immediately prior to hatching...

John Baker


John Baker
woodlyme
Member
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
No. of posts: 11


View other posts by woodlyme
Posted: 15 Sep 2010
I checked the temperature of the old compost heap in the
region of the re-buried eggs and it was only 15C, with
little prospect of it warming now. So I have relocated
most of the eggs to a tea chest filled with the compost
and a 100W heater in the base, in the car-port, with more
compost piled up beside to provide an escape route.
Unfortunately I do not have a suitable thermostat
(suggestions?) so I am frequently checking the
temperature and switching heater as required; but it is
not proving easy to keep them in the recommended range of
21 to 28C! I had no reply from the Surrey ARG, and could
not find that BHS bulletin online. More detailed hard
info would be most appreciated. Many thanks for all the
advice so far. I guess time is running out? If they do
not hatch by mid October is it all over?
kevinb
Senior Member
Joined: 18 Mar 2009
No. of posts: 61


View other posts by kevinb
Posted: 15 Sep 2010

I keep snakes at home and have recently hatched a few clutches of eggs, here is my method.

Get a polystyrene box with a lid ,from a tropical fish shop for example , fill it with 4 inches of water and put an aquarium heater in the water set to the desired temperature.Put the eggs in some damp vermiculite, half buried if possible in a tupperware box with lid. Put the lid of the poly box on and wait for them to hatch. Simple.

PS reptile eggs have to be kept up the same way as you found them.

kevinb40436.5725462963
Robert V
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
No. of posts: 717


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Posted: 15 Sep 2010

Hi,

don't worry, Grass Snakes eggs are pretty durable but as Kevin rightly says you need to keep them the same way up at all times. But just because the cold has delayed the incubation, it doesn't necessarily follow that the eggs wont hatch. Get them warm and once hatched you may have to consider some adopted off spring for the winter or find them some decent meals before release so that they have some protection against the winter.

Rob


RobV
Robert V
Senior Member
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
No. of posts: 717


View other posts by Robert V
Posted: 15 Sep 2010

PS,

I'll email steve for you and see if he's interested in helping (not herping :-})

If you decide you can't or don't want the committment, PM me and although I'm in Essex I'll come and pick them up. My track record on hatching Grassies so far, is 9 from 18, 5 from 12 and 2 from 8. The two from 8 was from a heap that had been turned, so likelihood was eggs were upturned also. But 16 from 38 is probably about natures average anyway.

R


RobV
herpetologic2
Senior Member
Joined: 15 Jun 2004
No. of posts: 1369


View other posts by herpetologic2
Posted: 16 Sep 2010
Hi there
I would suggest incubating them as described and then release the hatchlings into the heap. The best way for them to survive the winter would be conserve their energy stores by getting them into cooler environments such as the old heap. The snakes will possibly disperse or stay around the heap until spring next year.

The eggs just need to be kept warm and damp or moist to get them to hatch. As they come out collect them and release them into the compost outside no need to feed them.

Grass snakes are active through october so you have a month or so to hatch them and get them out into the wild

J
Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant -
visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife
woodlyme
Member
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
No. of posts: 11


View other posts by woodlyme
Posted: 16 Sep 2010

Thank you all, that is mostly very reassuring. (Except
for the "do not turn" bit, because obviously I had no
idea about that when I found them, but have been very
careful since.) The aquarium method is brilliant! We keep
tropical fish, so I should have thought of it myself.
However, now that the chest full of compost has warmed
through, the temperature has stabilised well, so having
constructed this incubator I am happy to wait and see how
it goes. I am greatly reassured by all the supportive
comments, thanks again. The carport location, luckily, is
ideal. The compost heap is right behind it (and I'll
preserve that now), with low ground cover alongside. We
sometimes see adult grassies sheltering in the car port,
so know they like it. We have also seen many youngsters
all around this area of the garden, so there must be
plenty of food around. I think the hatchlings will be
able to make their own way out, but I'll be delighted if
I get the chance to help one or two.

This summer we had a large adult residing in a hole under
a dead tree, often seen basking part in, part out, then
retreating in when disturbed. They are also fond of our
pond full of newts, although we are not quite so keen on
this since we discovered a couple of Great Cresteds in
there.

Here is my favourite photo of grassie and toad in our
garden (the rather over optimistic meal was abandoned
apparently unharmed!)



and here is an adult on the compost heap concerned



P.S. This forum editor seems to be seriously broken using
Chrome browser, so I was unable to embed the photos or
even hyperlinks. What browser can be used to do this?

P.P.S. Photos added later using Internet Explorer 8.

woodlyme40456.7543865741
Iowarth
Admin Group
Joined: 12 Apr 2004
No. of posts: 222


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Posted: 16 Sep 2010
Hi there

Sorry you are having problems with the forum via Google
Chrome.

But, I agree, image uploading/hyperlinks seems to defeat
Chrome. Unfortunately the forum software predates Chrome
by some years so was never tested with it.

You could perhaps try Opera - no guarantees but it is
another small footprint fast browser.

All the best

ChrisIowarth40437.9139814815
Chris Davis, Site Administrator
Co-ordinator, Sand Lizard Captive Breeding Programme
woodlyme
Member
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
No. of posts: 11


View other posts by woodlyme
Posted: 05 Oct 2010

I'm so excited! I found this little chap today in my incubator!

woodlyme40456.7490972222
woodlyme
Member
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
No. of posts: 11


View other posts by woodlyme
Posted: 05 Oct 2010

To answer my own question:

"This forum editor seems to be seriously broken using
Chrome browser, so I was unable to embed the photos or
even hyperlinks. What browser can be used to do this?"

I see that IE8 worked just fine for embedding a photo.

So I have now added the photos to my earlier post.

woodlyme40456.7553819444
tim hamlett
Senior Member
Joined: 17 Dec 2006
No. of posts: 572


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Posted: 06 Oct 2010

congratulations!!!

tim


woodlyme
Member
Joined: 30 Jul 2010
No. of posts: 11


View other posts by woodlyme
Posted: 12 Oct 2010
For those watching this thread, please note that I have started a new thread regarding what to do next. Please continue to help me there! Many thanks to all who replied on this topic.

- Egg protection advice

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