Egg protection advice: |
Author | Message |
woodlyme Member Joined: 30 Jul 2010 No. of posts: 11 View other posts by woodlyme |
Posted: 13 Aug 2010 I recently uncovered a very large clutch of eggs in a compost heap. It was too late to preserve the original location, so I reburied them further back, hopefully at about the same depth. How critical is the eggs' environment? Are these likely to be OK? Having read that 40 eggs would be a large clutch, I am now a little tempted to try to count them more accurately, since my rough estimate was 50+ at the time, but I don't want to risk their viability. I would also really like to keep an eye on their progress. Any advice please? |
will Senior Member Joined: 27 Feb 2007 No. of posts: 330 View other posts by will |
Posted: 14 Aug 2010 Great find - well done; your compost heap is evidently grass snake friendly. I'd advise you to rebury them at the same depth in what remains of the heap. They shouldn't be far off hatching now, I reckon. You want some warmth (use a thermometer to probe the temp at various depths before reburying them ?) but not too much, of course. If you have a single clutch of 50 that would be pretty rare, but several females often lay together, which can lead to the appearance of a singly egg mass (rather like clumps of frogspawn stick together). Once you are sure the eggs have hatched (end of Sept/ early Oct to be sure) then dig up the eggs and see if you can make out separate clutches or just one big mass of eggs. As far as watching the eggs goes, I don't know how you'd do this, or that you'd see much of interest, until the first tiny head appears from the egg. If you put some matting or thin board on the heap, the hatchlings will be more evident as they enjoy the warmth of these objects Cheers Will |
herpetologic2 Senior Member Joined: 15 Jun 2004 No. of posts: 1369 View other posts by herpetologic2 |
Posted: 16 Aug 2010 Where are you? if you need to some help there are people who have experience in recovering grass snake eggs and hatching them artificially - I know a person who has rescued over 80 eggs over three years from a working stable and has had great success in hatching them. Other people have also hatched them artificially - though this would be a last resort after the heap has been rebuilt. Contact your local ARG if you have one www.arguk.org and they could advise further aswell Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant - visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife |
woodlyme Member Joined: 30 Jul 2010 No. of posts: 11 View other posts by woodlyme |
Posted: 06 Sep 2010 Thanks for the good advice. I think it was two clutches then, which makes me even more concerned about them hatching! I am now very worried about the heat issue, since I suspect the mother had chosen a spot (no longer accessible) in maximum sunlight, and the weather since I disturbed them has been cooler. It would seem prudent to consider hatching some of them artificially. I am in Surrey, so I'll try to contact the local ARG. |
Suzi Senior Member Joined: 06 Apr 2005 No. of posts: 860 View other posts by Suzi |
Posted: 06 Sep 2010 I guess sometimes grass snakes know where will be suitable to lay. Is maximum sunlight necessary? Vegetation, sawdust and muck heaps generate their own heat. Just an idea. Suz |
woodlyme Member Joined: 30 Jul 2010 No. of posts: 11 View other posts by woodlyme |
Posted: 07 Sep 2010 Good point; I should have said that they are in an old heap. As far as I can tell it is not generating heat. I should try to get hold of a suitable thermometer to check; any suggestions, and what temperature should they be at? |
JohnBaker Member Joined: 21 Nov 2003 No. of posts: 5 View other posts by JohnBaker |
Posted: 08 Sep 2010 Simon Townson published an article on grass snake eggs reared at different temps (BHS Bulletin 34). Although working with small sample sizes, 27-28oC worked well. In a similar situation to this thread, I have incubated grass snake eggs artificially (compost heap destroyed). I think this option works well if you feel you have a 'feel' for captive care of herps. Eggs placed in damp vermiculite and kept in airing cupboard, temp upper twenties. Note, snake eggs collapse a little immediately prior to hatching... John Baker John Baker |
woodlyme Member Joined: 30 Jul 2010 No. of posts: 11 View other posts by woodlyme |
Posted: 15 Sep 2010 I checked the temperature of the old compost heap in the region of the re-buried eggs and it was only 15C, with little prospect of it warming now. So I have relocated most of the eggs to a tea chest filled with the compost and a 100W heater in the base, in the car-port, with more compost piled up beside to provide an escape route. Unfortunately I do not have a suitable thermostat (suggestions?) so I am frequently checking the temperature and switching heater as required; but it is not proving easy to keep them in the recommended range of 21 to 28C! I had no reply from the Surrey ARG, and could not find that BHS bulletin online. More detailed hard info would be most appreciated. Many thanks for all the advice so far. I guess time is running out? If they do not hatch by mid October is it all over? |
kevinb Senior Member Joined: 18 Mar 2009 No. of posts: 61 View other posts by kevinb |
Posted: 15 Sep 2010 I keep snakes at home and have recently hatched a few clutches of eggs, here is my method. Get a polystyrene box with a lid ,from a tropical fish shop for example , fill it with 4 inches of water and put an aquarium heater in the water set to the desired temperature.Put the eggs in some damp vermiculite, half buried if possible in a tupperware box with lid. Put the lid of the poly box on and wait for them to hatch. Simple. PS reptile eggs have to be kept up the same way as you found them. |
Robert V Senior Member Joined: 06 Aug 2004 No. of posts: 717 View other posts by Robert V |
Posted: 15 Sep 2010 Hi, don't worry, Grass Snakes eggs are pretty durable but as Kevin rightly says you need to keep them the same way up at all times. But just because the cold has delayed the incubation, it doesn't necessarily follow that the eggs wont hatch. Get them warm and once hatched you may have to consider some adopted off spring for the winter or find them some decent meals before release so that they have some protection against the winter. Rob RobV |
Robert V Senior Member Joined: 06 Aug 2004 No. of posts: 717 View other posts by Robert V |
Posted: 15 Sep 2010 PS, I'll email steve for you and see if he's interested in helping (not herping :-}) If you decide you can't or don't want the committment, PM me and although I'm in Essex I'll come and pick them up. My track record on hatching Grassies so far, is 9 from 18, 5 from 12 and 2 from 8. The two from 8 was from a heap that had been turned, so likelihood was eggs were upturned also. But 16 from 38 is probably about natures average anyway. R RobV |
herpetologic2 Senior Member Joined: 15 Jun 2004 No. of posts: 1369 View other posts by herpetologic2 |
Posted: 16 Sep 2010 Hi there I would suggest incubating them as described and then release the hatchlings into the heap. The best way for them to survive the winter would be conserve their energy stores by getting them into cooler environments such as the old heap. The snakes will possibly disperse or stay around the heap until spring next year. The eggs just need to be kept warm and damp or moist to get them to hatch. As they come out collect them and release them into the compost outside no need to feed them. Grass snakes are active through october so you have a month or so to hatch them and get them out into the wild J Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant - visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife |
woodlyme Member Joined: 30 Jul 2010 No. of posts: 11 View other posts by woodlyme |
Posted: 16 Sep 2010 Thank you all, that is mostly very reassuring. (Except P.P.S. Photos added later using Internet Explorer 8. |
Iowarth Admin Group Joined: 12 Apr 2004 No. of posts: 222 View other posts by Iowarth |
Posted: 16 Sep 2010 Hi there Sorry you are having problems with the forum via Google Chrome. But, I agree, image uploading/hyperlinks seems to defeat Chrome. Unfortunately the forum software predates Chrome by some years so was never tested with it. You could perhaps try Opera - no guarantees but it is another small footprint fast browser. All the best Chris Chris Davis, Site Administrator Co-ordinator, Sand Lizard Captive Breeding Programme |
woodlyme Member Joined: 30 Jul 2010 No. of posts: 11 View other posts by woodlyme |
Posted: 05 Oct 2010 I'm so excited! I found this little chap today in my incubator! |
woodlyme Member Joined: 30 Jul 2010 No. of posts: 11 View other posts by woodlyme |
Posted: 05 Oct 2010 To answer my own question: "This forum editor seems to be seriously broken using I see that IE8 worked just fine for embedding a photo. So I have now added the photos to my earlier post. |
tim hamlett Senior Member Joined: 17 Dec 2006 No. of posts: 572 View other posts by tim hamlett |
Posted: 06 Oct 2010 congratulations!!! tim |
woodlyme Member Joined: 30 Jul 2010 No. of posts: 11 View other posts by woodlyme |
Posted: 12 Oct 2010 For those watching this thread, please note that I have started a new thread regarding what to do next. Please continue to help me there! Many thanks to all who replied on this topic. |
- Egg protection advice |