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Grass Snakes in Scotland: |
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Robert V Senior Member Joined: 06 Aug 2004 No. of posts: 717  View other posts by Robert V |
Posted: 28 May 2008
Hi all, I was flicking through an old encyclopedia yesterday (as you do) c.1900, and apart from the fact that an Adder used to be called Nadder(!) I found that there used to be a population of grass snakes living north of the cheviot hills which is now Lannarkshire. i can't find any mention of that population in the atlases, although there is mention of individuals being recorded to the west of Glasgow in the JNCC biological atlas. Given that the weather is now supposed to be warmer than the 1900's, it would seem to suggest that something other than weather is restricting Nn to England? If it's not the weather, why do you thnk Nn has died out in Scotland when once they were common? Cheers Rob RobV |
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GemmaJF Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 No. of posts: 2090  View other posts by GemmaJF |
Posted: 28 May 2008 Nadders, I like Nµdre, an even older name for them I do get the odd record of Nn in Scotland Rob, trouble is there is never photographic evidence so who knows, but in some cases the observer is convinced it was Nn and not Vb or Af. I know there is speculation that some historical records were of introduced animals. Maybe someone with more knowledge of the subject can let us know. Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant |
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Robert V Senior Member Joined: 06 Aug 2004 No. of posts: 717 View other posts by Robert V |
Posted: 28 May 2008 hey Gemma, I just found an advert for a house in Scotland on the internet! Reading down the page, Grassies thrive on Mull! As soon as I print off the page, I'll post it on her for you to read. Mull eh? RobV |
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Robert V Senior Member Joined: 06 Aug 2004 No. of posts: 717 View other posts by Robert V |
Posted: 28 May 2008 here, it's a bit scruffy, but the blurb that goes with the house advert as follows,  RobV |
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Caleb Forum Coordinator Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 448 View other posts by Caleb |
Posted: 29 May 2008 [QUOTE=Robert V]why do you thnk Nn has died out in Scotland when once they were common? [/QUOTE] An anecdotal report of a population in Lanarkshire hardly qualifies them as 'once common'... It's occasionally suggested that grass snakes might be hiding out in unsurveyed places in Scotland, but I'd propose that the falloff in grass snake site numbers from the south to the north of England makes this unlikely. They're barely hanging on in Durham & Northumberland (2-3 sites?). I don't think there are more than a handful of sites in Cumbria, and Cumbria's natterjacks have meant that the county has had more than its fair share of herp surveys... |
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Robert V Senior Member Joined: 06 Aug 2004 No. of posts: 717 View other posts by Robert V |
Posted: 29 May 2008 Caleb, Yes, and so? My post simply asked why (if not weather) Grassies were missing now from Scotland. The Biological Records surveys of 1973 and 1985 had Nn at numerous sites around the Glasgow area so its hardly anecdotal if a well known encyclopedia reinforces the later (some 70 years later) info from a historical perspective.. I'm aware that Grassies are barely hanging on and I've passed this onto NE although they appear unconcerned. My view is that it has nothing to do with weather, but more like development and disturbance and restriction on suitable sites or migration corridors. But I'm always willing to listen to alternatives. Cheers Rob RobV |
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Caleb Forum Coordinator Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 448 View other posts by Caleb |
Posted: 29 May 2008 Well, my point is really that I don't believe grass snakes have ever been common in Scotland- I think the falloff from south to north probably represents a genuine limit of their possible range, and I do think that weather/climate is the best explanation. If you look at the individual records from http://www.searchnbn.net, most of them are pretty poor; two thirds of them give the recording date as 'Between 1650 and 1958'. The Bonar Bridge record is the only one since 1960! |
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Robert V Senior Member Joined: 06 Aug 2004 No. of posts: 717 View other posts by Robert V |
Posted: 29 May 2008
Fair point. If that's the case then the case for conservation down here is even stronger. Rob RobV |
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mystictonka Member Joined: 20 Apr 2008 No. of posts: 5 View other posts by mystictonka |
Posted: 29 May 2008 I have just come back from a week on Mull, no grass snakes encountered but a I found a few adders around Treshnish & Mishnish lochs, the latter is reported as the hotspot for them. |
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Caleb Forum Coordinator Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 448 View other posts by Caleb |
Posted: 30 May 2008 [QUOTE=Robert V]If that's the case then the case for conservation down here is even stronger.[/QUOTE] Quite. The Durham grass snakes actually seem to be benefiting from the fact that they're known to be rare in the county- there's quite a lot of work currently being done to create & improve habitat for them, and there's actually some money being put into it! |
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Suzi Senior Member Joined: 06 Apr 2005 No. of posts: 860 View other posts by Suzi |
Posted: 01 Jun 2008 Just to say that I lived in the Lake District in the 1960s and there were lots of grass snakes in my area then - big ones too. This was in the area between Lake Windermere and Coniston Water. I don't imagine much has changed. The winters were bitter then but that all changed in the 70s I believe. (I do realise that cold winters are not detrimental to snakes). Suz |
- Grass Snakes in Scotland |
