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Newt ID, Oban, Scotland: |
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LyndsaySwinton Member Joined: 22 Sep 2004 No. of posts: 3  View other posts by LyndsaySwinton |
Posted: 22 Sep 2004 Please can you help me identify this newt. The picture was taken in August, and the 4 newts turned up one rainy day in the dogs waterbowl, outside. I live in Oban, on the coast of NW Scotland. It doesn't match with either the smooth or palmate newt decsriptions I've read, so was hoping you can help! Regards Lyndsay PS I released them into the pond in our garden, fed by a hill stream, which is probably acidic water. I have seen similar newts hanging out in the pond. PPS I couldn't upload the image, so have sent picture by email. |
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GemmaJF Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 No. of posts: 2090  View other posts by GemmaJF |
Posted: 22 Sep 2004 Newt pictures:
Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant |
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evilmike Senior Member Joined: 15 May 2004 No. of posts: 85 View other posts by evilmike |
Posted: 23 Sep 2004 looks like Triturus helveticus Palmate newts to me although cant see too clearly, look rather skinny too, the largest one in the second pic is a female i believe cant see the others to tell, few different ages there too judging by size range. Mike Lister BSc hons Ecology & Env management |
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Matt Harris Senior Member Joined: 03 Jun 2003 No. of posts: 196 View other posts by Matt Harris |
Posted: 23 Sep 2004 Very difficult to tell if it's female smooth or palmate - the features we normally use to tell them apart aren't visible on that pic. Gwent Amphibian and Reptile Group (GARG) |
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Caleb Forum Coordinator Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 448 View other posts by Caleb |
Posted: 23 Sep 2004 I'd agree that it's impossible to tell from the pictures whether they're smooths or palmates, but palmates are much more likely in that part of Scotland, I would have thought. |
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GemmaJF Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 No. of posts: 2090 View other posts by GemmaJF |
Posted: 23 Sep 2004 Hi Lyndsay, my feeling was Palmate newts though I'm not positive, this is also supported by your suggestion that the pond may be acidic, as palmate newts are more tolerant of acidic water that smooth. If you can take a close look at the throats on the next one you see it's the best clue I know to identification. Palmates tend to have pinky translucent throats with few or no spots, smooth newts have whiter throats with obvious spots. It might take looking at a few of them to be sure and sometimes both species occur together. The males will not be in full breeding dress at this time of year, so the tail filament and low dorsal crest may well be abscent. Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant |
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evilmike Senior Member Joined: 15 May 2004 No. of posts: 85 View other posts by evilmike |
Posted: 23 Sep 2004 males would also have webbed feet, the female hasnt got this to allow for the wrapping of the eggs into the vegetation. its just smooths that poccess a low crest well and GCNs not palmates, lucky enough to have 100s of palmates in my garden, found a juvenile yesterday hiding in the rockery, was about 2cm long so cute :) although have so many they have demolished my frog tadpoles for the 2nd time in a 2yrs, havent seen any tadpoles and not froglets this yr in last 6months :( think its time for some segregation. any1 else suffered from anything similar? Mike Lister BSc hons Ecology & Env management |
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LyndsaySwinton Member Joined: 22 Sep 2004 No. of posts: 3 View other posts by LyndsaySwinton |
Posted: 27 Sep 2004 Thanks for all the replies! My concern at the moment is that there are plans to build several "infill" houses in green spaces around my house. I am concerned that the newts (and many other visitors to my garden) will be adversely impacted by the building and subsequent houses due to drainage of the boggier areas, concrete, pet cats etc. What are your views on the potential impact, and are there any preventive measures that I could take to maintain habitat for the newts? The developer is at the outline planning stage with the council, so it may be possible to stipulate some environmental conditions......? Regards Lyndsay |
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GemmaJF Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 No. of posts: 2090 View other posts by GemmaJF |
Posted: 28 Sep 2004 Hi Lyndsay, The widespread species of newt, smooth and palmate, do not have any legislative protection regarding their habitat. The developer has no legal obligation to put any form of mitigation in place. You can use your own garden to compensate for the loss of habitat to some degree by constructing features such as log piles to give the local newt population winter refuge.
Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant |
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Matt Harris Senior Member Joined: 03 Jun 2003 No. of posts: 196 View other posts by Matt Harris |
Posted: 28 Sep 2004 Lyndsay, When you say 'at the outline planning stage', do you know if the OPA has been determined yet? Either way, smooth/palmate newts are afforded very little protection under the WCA1981, so their presence alone wouldn't be a material consideration in the determining of this application. On their own, you wouldn't be able to get planning conditions to protect the newts attached either. The developer could appeal that these conditions are unreasonable. You could fall on the mercy of the developer and ask them to remove and exclude the newts, but they would be under no obligation. Alternatively, you could get a local wildlife group/trust to do the work. It might be worth checking out the biodiversity policies of your Local Authority. The site might qualify under some wildlife site criteria which could carry some weight. Here in South Wales, for example, sites supporting four or more species of amphibian, good populations of three or more species of amphibian or exceptional populations of any single species of amphibian, can be designated as Sites of Interest for Nature Conservation. These are material considerations in planning decisions. There might be other policies in your Local Biodiversity Action Plan which would help, but again these are policies not law. You might have more joy if there is other wildlife interest as well as the newts. Whatever you choose to do, the council and developers will probably think you are just a NIMBY; i.e you donĘt like the idea of these new houses, so you are trying to use the nature conservation value of the site to stop it going ahead. Gwent Amphibian and Reptile Group (GARG) |
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LyndsaySwinton Member Joined: 22 Sep 2004 No. of posts: 3 View other posts by LyndsaySwinton |
Posted: 05 Oct 2004 Thanks for your advice. I will check out the local area plan. I am resigned to the fact that the development will probably go ahead, but want to do as much as possible to support the local wildlife. We've got a kestrel that visits daily, eating birds who use the bird table, buzzards, a barn owl, 2 tawny owls, bats, bull finches, woodpeckers, tree creepers to name a few.... and chantarelle mushrooms :>) Lyndsay |
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-LAF Senior Member Joined: 03 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 317 View other posts by -LAF |
Posted: 06 Oct 2004 If there's a bat roost there that might carry some weight. Some good EU law protecting these. Your local bat group would probably be able to give you advice. Lee. Lee Fairclough |
- Newt ID, Oban, Scotland |
