 |
|
|
Palmate Newt Distribution: |
| Author | Message |
|
Angelo Pernetta Member Joined: 09 Jul 2004 No. of posts: 8  View other posts by Angelo Pernetta |
Posted: 29 Sep 2004 Dear All, Im currently trying to research what has determined the current distribution of Palmate newts on the islands off the coast of britain. I was wondering if anyone knew/ had access to a list of islands on which it is present? Many thanks in advance for your help Angelo Pernetta Angelo Pernetta PhD Student, Centre for Ecology and Hydrology - Dorset http://uk.geocities.com/angelopernetta/ |
|
Matt Harris Senior Member Joined: 03 Jun 2003 No. of posts: 196  View other posts by Matt Harris |
Posted: 01 Oct 2004 Not much help I know but I can say that it does NOT occur on Flat Holm in the Severn Estuary. Gwent Amphibian and Reptile Group (GARG) |
|
-LAF Senior Member Joined: 03 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 317 View other posts by -LAF |
Posted: 02 Oct 2004 You'll struggle like hell to find them in Lincolnshire too. A couple of heathland sites have records but they are a tiny minority. There are a few islands in the Humber with interesting fauna and flora (black rats anyone?) but I know of no newt information for these. Judging by land either side though I suspect these are fully palmate free. Lee. Lee Fairclough |
|
Caleb Forum Coordinator Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 448 View other posts by Caleb |
Posted: 04 Oct 2004 Angelo, have you seen the distribution map published by the BRC? There's a scan of it at http://www.darkwave.org.uk/~caleb/triukhel.html It looks like they've been recorded from very few islands round the UK... |
|
Angelo Pernetta Member Joined: 09 Jul 2004 No. of posts: 8 View other posts by Angelo Pernetta |
Posted: 04 Oct 2004 Many thanks for those messages I havent seen the map before - that was a great help. I'll keep you posted with what I find out Angelo Pernetta PhD Student, Centre for Ecology and Hydrology - Dorset http://uk.geocities.com/angelopernetta/ |
|
calumma Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2003 No. of posts: 351 View other posts by calumma |
Posted: 04 Oct 2004 One of the islands where palmates have been recorded is Isle of Sheppy in Kent. However, the two records on my database are rather suspect and need verification. There are no other palmate records in that part of the county. Interestingly there are no records from the South Essex coast either. Perhaps Jon can shed some light on the Essex distribution. 
In case you don't know Kent. The Isle of Sheppy is towards the top of the map. Although it looks like it is joined to the rest of Kent, there is in fact a wide channel between it and the mainland. Lee Brady Kent Herpetofauna Recorder | Independent Ecological Consultant |
|
Angelo Pernetta Member Joined: 09 Jul 2004 No. of posts: 8 View other posts by Angelo Pernetta |
Posted: 04 Oct 2004 Thanks Lee for that message - I have a theory as to why Palmate newts have been recorded on Islands such as Sheppy without being recorded in the near vicinity on the mainland. I dont want to go into detail yet as it needs more backing - but as soon as I think I have enough proof I'll let you know! Thanks again Angelo Angelo Pernetta PhD Student, Centre for Ecology and Hydrology - Dorset http://uk.geocities.com/angelopernetta/ |
|
calumma Senior Member Joined: 27 Jun 2003 No. of posts: 351 View other posts by calumma |
Posted: 04 Oct 2004 Angelo, When you have the data, I would certainly be interested in learning more about your hypothesis. I'm keen on collecting more herp data from Sheppy (and some of the other small islands in the Thames Estuary). We were hoping to include it in our survey programme this year. Unfortunately none of our volunteer surveyors lived close enough... Perhaps next year. Lee Lee Brady Kent Herpetofauna Recorder | Independent Ecological Consultant |
|
herpetologic2 Senior Member Joined: 15 Jun 2004 No. of posts: 1369  View other posts by herpetologic2 |
Posted: 30 Nov 2004 Angelo Palmate Newt records from Islands around the Essex Coastline is only Mersea Island - There are no records for the species on Canvey Island, or Two Tree Island - Palmates live very close by on the mainland - Belfairs Nature Reserve - an ancient woodland with a Bagshot sand/claygate geology. The Mersea Island Record needs verifiying but the nearest mainland records are West and South West of Colchester - again in woodland sites such as Friday Woods, Pods Wood and Layer Breton - The population of palmates in Friday Woods are doing nicely in tank rutts - this is an army training ground!!! I can send through my records for palmate in Essex
Jon Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant - visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife |
|
Ewan Member Joined: 14 Jul 2003 No. of posts: 21 View other posts by Ewan |
Posted: 06 Dec 2004 Hi Angelo I found Palmates present a couple of years ago in ~15 bog pools spread over a couple of sq km on Sgurr na Stri next to the Cuillins on the Isle of Skye. Interestingly several of the breeding males were significantly smaller than normal. Ewan. Found the photo. The coin is a 1p.  Ewan Shilland Contract Research Scientist Environmental Change Research Centre University College London |
|
Mick Member Joined: 10 Jun 2005 No. of posts: 184 View other posts by Mick |
Posted: 27 Nov 2005 I've read about & also found for myself that Palmate newts of heathland ponds can be rather small. Anyway, although i introduced Palmates to my pond many years ago (where they're still doin' great alongside Smooths & the odd few visiting Cresteds), there's none known to be in the wild here in north Oxfordshire. In fact, i think just about the only ones i've heard of in this county are meant to exist at a BBONT reserve on the edge of Oxford. |
|
herpetologic2 Senior Member Joined: 15 Jun 2004 No. of posts: 1369 View other posts by herpetologic2 |
Posted: 28 Nov 2005
Hi Mick Palmates have been rediscovered in Norfolk by Steve Prowse (NARG + NT) by looking for ponds in ancient woodland located on acidic geology and he has found that the species is also associated with Sessile Oak - he gave an excellent talk on this at the East Anglia Regional Meeting (19th Nov) and he is hoping to find more palmate newt sites - funnily enough the palmate is rarer than the Natterjack Toad in Norfolk! Perhaps you should look for similar sites to the one you know may contain newts in the BBONT reserve
Regards JC Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant - visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife |
|
Mick Member Joined: 10 Jun 2005 No. of posts: 184 View other posts by Mick |
Posted: 28 Nov 2005 Hi JC. I've only read, or heard they're at that reserve (called the Henry stephen/C.S.Lewis Reserve where all 3 native species are meant to be) & the area's unfortunately a bit too far from me to survey. Anyway, i wouldn't be at all surprised if the possible Palmates there were introduced. That's great news about Palmates in Norfolk by the way! I suppose it depends on the places in the UK i've been to but, for myself, i find the Palmate almost as rare as the Crested to come across, although thankfully Cresteds aren't rare in Oxfordshire. I just don't think Oxfordshire's got much in the way of those typically acidic ponds that Palmates naturally tend to frequent. For studying their pond antics up close, i think Palmates are slightly more characterful, interesting & fun to watch than Smooths. Then again, i find all newts up my pond fascinating fun to spend to ages every year watching. |
|
herpetologic2 Senior Member Joined: 15 Jun 2004 No. of posts: 1369 View other posts by herpetologic2 |
Posted: 29 Nov 2005
Steve mentioned that they court alot more than the smoothies- it would be worth looking for any woodland near you - if the woodland is on high ground like a hill or an acidic geology then it may well be worth looking for the newts if you have a chance. I have looked at the geology of Oxfordshire and it seems pretty much alkaline or neutral - which possibly wouldnt be favourable for the newt? regards JC Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant - visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife |
|
Caleb Forum Coordinator Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 448 View other posts by Caleb |
Posted: 29 Nov 2005 I'd be very interested to know more about the palmate site(s) in Norfolk, as East Anglia's notoriously bad for palmates. Crested newt is certainly more common than palmate in Cambridgeshire and Suffolk. As well as acidity, water hardness has been suggested as a factor in palmate distribution in the UK. There are certainly acidic heaths in Suffolk & Norfolk where palmates haven't been recorded, whereas similar habitats elsewhere in the country do have them. For a survey targeted at acidic habitats, it would be well worth looking at soil maps as well as geological ones, as the conditions near the surface can be very different to the underlying geology. |
|
herpetologic2 Senior Member Joined: 15 Jun 2004 No. of posts: 1369 View other posts by herpetologic2 |
Posted: 29 Nov 2005
Yeah thats right there is a great little feature on the www.magic.gov.uk website where you map the soil scape of counties very handy to locate potential newt sites - Jon Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant - visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife |
|
will j Member Joined: 06 Aug 2005 No. of posts: 18 View other posts by will j |
Posted: 24 Jan 2006 aren't there palmates on the Scilly islands and either Jersey are Gurnesy? Birder from Shropshire, adrift in Cornwall! |
|
Caleb Forum Coordinator Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 448 View other posts by Caleb |
Posted: 25 Jan 2006 As I understand it, there are palmates on Jersey, and smooths in Guernsey. I don't know about the Scilly Isles... |
|
Mick Member Joined: 10 Jun 2005 No. of posts: 184 View other posts by Mick |
Posted: 25 Feb 2006 JC recently enquired of herp's on the Scillies & i think it was found that, of newt species, there's records of Smooths there. I'd have thought Palmates were more likely, as well as maybe a land reptile, or two, but apparently not. |
- Palmate Newt Distribution |
