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Reptiles on Ikaria... David?: |
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-LAF Senior Member Joined: 03 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 317  View other posts by -LAF |
Posted: 02 Jul 2003 Hi, sorry to keep pestering you but some fascinating (maybe) info has turned up on Ikaria. I have a friend out there on Ikaria (Aegean) for his own MSc project (he's been there a month now) and I've had him scouring for reptiles on his travels. So far been turning up maybe 3 species that aren't listed in Richard Clarke's notes on the island (BHS Bulletin, No 56, 1996). I was wondering if there have been any later papers published on the herpetofauna of this island that may already have accounted for these animals. Many thanks, Lee. Lee Fairclough |
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-LAF Senior Member Joined: 03 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 317 View other posts by -LAF |
Posted: 02 Jul 2003 More specifically I should metion that the animals he's recorded are the glass lizard - found dead and now preserved, Hemidactylus turcicus (might just wait to see photo's to confrim this one, though I sent him out with a key) and Malpolon. The latter really surprised me but he has found several Coluber caspius (one found dead and now preserved) so I don't think he'd miss ID with that. If there is anything legitimately interesting amongst this lot I'll try and get something published but, like I said, Clark was the most recent thing I've managed to find and it doesn't categorically state whether all the animals he lists are all the species recorded. Cheers, Lee. Lee Fairclough |
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Matt Wilson Member Joined: 25 May 2003 No. of posts: 38 View other posts by Matt Wilson |
Posted: 02 Jul 2003 Lee, The Richard Clark papers i am sure are not the most up-to-date of the Greek Islands. I have heard of new ones being produced for the Aegean Islands, but the island you mentioned is certainly not the most surveyed of this group. I know that papers are in production covering the whole of the Greek Islands, but am not sure on their release. I highly doubt that Ophisaurus apodus would be a new for the island, certainly on the Ionian islands, they are quite common in Spring-time, but far less so in the summer. Malpolon monspessulanus is certainly the most common snake on the Greek island in which myself and Dave Bird have recently been surveying. However if Coluber caspius occurs there also i cannot imagine these species being of any new interest. As Coluber caspius is probably the most common of the Aegean snakes as far as i know. Ophisaurus occurs on the majority of the Aegean Islands, as does Coluber caspius according to the lists i have. Turkish Gecko is also very evident in this region, and found on nearby Samos, Thassos, Lesvos. Dave will probably have more new information regarding the island. Ask him to get in touch. Matthew Wilson |
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David Bird Forum Specialist Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 515 View other posts by David Bird |
Posted: 02 Jul 2003 Lee Werner 1938 does give Hemidactylus turcicus as well as Coluber caspius which is the only snake he records the same as Clark on his three visits. Malpolon is found on Chios which is further north as is Ophisaurus apodus whic was first recorded in 1991 by Broggi. He went to Ikaria in 1986 but did not find either of these species. I think that in many parts of Greece it depends on the time of year and the weather conditions you have when you are there. I was out in Kefalonia the other week and shade temperature was 31 ?- 35?C and the ground temperature was 55?C on one of the cooler days, air temperature was 28?C at night. I did not find Ophisaurus which does occur there and the majoriy of my records were from DOR or in shady valleys. If I find out anything else I will let you know. British Herpetological Society Librarian and member of B.H.S Conservation Committee. Self employed Herpetological Consultant and Field Worker. |
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David Bird Forum Specialist Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 515 View other posts by David Bird |
Posted: 03 Jul 2003 Lee Just found the following reference Broggi, M.F. 2001. Bemerkungen zur Herpetofauna der ?gõisinsel Ikaria (Griechenland) (Amphibia, Reptilia). Herpetozoa, 14(1/2): 9-14. This is an Austrian herpeological journal may be able to get in a few weeks British Herpetological Society Librarian and member of B.H.S Conservation Committee. Self employed Herpetological Consultant and Field Worker. |
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-LAF Senior Member Joined: 03 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 317 View other posts by -LAF |
Posted: 03 Jul 2003 Hi David, I had a search for it online to no avail, if you could get hold of it that would be fabulous. Have seen pics now and am sure on the ID of both Hemidactylus and Tenuidactylus, Ophisaurus apodus is bang on too (when I get permission I'll post the pics). Unfortunatley Malpolon was just a sighting but may get pictures yet. Out of interest, what is required to represent a confirmed sighting or record? Many thanks, Lee. Lee Fairclough |
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Wolfgang Wuster Senior Member Joined: 23 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 326 View other posts by Wolfgang Wuster |
Posted: 03 Jul 2003 Depends on where you want to publish it. Herpetological Review would want a body in a jar in a museum, barring exceptional circumstances. In other places, they may trust your ID without that (e.g., Hepretological Bulletin). Even so, if you are to be taken seriously, a photo would be the minimum required for a range extension. Cheers, Wolfgang Wolfgang Wüster School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor http://sbsweb.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/ |
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David Bird Forum Specialist Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 515 View other posts by David Bird |
Posted: 03 Jul 2003 Wolfgang beat me to it but then I spend my day in the field. I suppose that this is just filling in the gaps of which in the Balkans there are still very many. If the person doing the I.D. had years of experience in that area and hundreds of Malpolon sightings under his belt then a visual sighting would be useful by most recorders. That head is so recognisable. I still am not sure who in Greece collects sightings of Herpetofauna in Greece.I am not sure if it is the Goulandris Natural History Museum and am awaiting a reply. I would like to get hold of a digital map of Kefalonia to put all my recent records which may prove useful to someone in Greece British Herpetological Society Librarian and member of B.H.S Conservation Committee. Self employed Herpetological Consultant and Field Worker. |
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David Bird Forum Specialist Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 515 View other posts by David Bird |
Posted: 03 Jul 2003 Lee, found this summary on the Dutch Society Lacerta's site. Broggi, M.F. (2001): Bemerkungen zur Herpetofauna der ?gõisinsel Ikaria (Griechenland). û Herpetozoa, Wien, 14 (1/2): 9-14. (66-07) Den bisher von der Insel Ikaria bekannten zwei Amphibien- und 10 Reptilienarten wird eine weitere Reptilienart (Ophisaurus apodus) hinzugef³gt. Die im Vergleich zur benachbarten Insel Samos artenarme Herpetoz÷nose von Ikaria ist durch kleinasiatische Elemente geprõgt. Auffõllig sind durchwegs starke Populationen, insbesondere bei Rana sp., Laudakia stellio, Lacerta oertzeni und Mauremys rivulata. Lacerta oertzeni, Ophisops elegans macrodactylus. Perhaps some German speaking herpetologist could translate it for us. Does mention Ophisaurus British Herpetological Society Librarian and member of B.H.S Conservation Committee. Self employed Herpetological Consultant and Field Worker. |
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-LAF Senior Member Joined: 03 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 317 View other posts by -LAF |
Posted: 03 Jul 2003 Cheers David, my German is rather rudimentry but I beleive what it says is along the lines of a reptile, Ophiosaurus apodus, and two amphibians are added the the 10 previously known species on the island, and that Rana, Laudikia, oertzeni and Mauremys are common there. It also mentions something about the relationship of Ikaria to it's surrounding islands in terms of it's herpetofauna but what I'm not sure. Something about being more in common with the mainland than nearby Samos maybe? So this now leaves Malopolon as to track down. Unfortuanately my mate who saw it isn't really a herpetologist (though he is a zoologist), and I don't think he'd seen one before. I'll let him know he needs a picuture. To me it seems rather amazing that in the 21st century we're still don't have complete records from these places. One kind of expects it the middle of Indonesia, but not in the Aegean! Still, it'll make my next foreign holiday a lot more interesting 
Thanks again, Lee. Lee Fairclough |
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Wolfgang Wuster Senior Member Joined: 23 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 326 View other posts by Wolfgang Wuster |
Posted: 03 Jul 2003 Translation of the German text: To the 10 reptile and 2 amphibian spp. of the island of Ikaria, we add another reptile sp., Ophisaurus apodus. The herpetofauna of Ikaria, which is species-poor compared to that of the neighbouring island of Samos, is characterised by faunal elements from Asia Minor. Most populations are conspicuously abundant, especially Rana sp., Laudakia stellio, Lacerta oertzeni and Mauremys rivulata. Cheers, Wolfgang Wolfgang Wüster School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor http://sbsweb.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/ |
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David Bird Forum Specialist Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 515 View other posts by David Bird |
Posted: 03 Jul 2003 Danken Wolfgang. Lee there are still lots of places that have incomplete faunal lists in Europe especially in the Balkans. Most of the published material has been by British or German visitors and local herpetologists do not seem to produce the local information only countrywide lists using these other publications. It does seem difficult to find out what internal surveys are done if any, I expect they must be but I am not sure. I bought a 2002 Greek reptile field guide the other week unfortunately all in Greek and was expecting distribution maps but there are not any and this was a publication by the main Natural History museum workers. Local environmental group workers with a reptile interest on Kefalonia did not know it existed and I only saw it by complete accident in a book shop window which when asked said they had no animal books or reptile books in the shop. All holidays to the Mediterranean area can be liable to produce new locality records if you keep your eyes open. Local "normal" people never know what is on their doorstep and think you are mad when you show an interest in lizards or scrape DOR snakes off the local highway, just like our locals. British Herpetological Society Librarian and member of B.H.S Conservation Committee. Self employed Herpetological Consultant and Field Worker. |
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-LAF Senior Member Joined: 03 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 317 View other posts by -LAF |
Posted: 03 Jul 2003 Okay, so maybe "rudimentry" should have read "useless"... 
So 11 reptiles including Ophisaurus... 1. Laudakia stellio 2. Lacerta oertzeni 3. Ophiosops elegans 4. Hemidactylus turcicus 5. Tenuidactylus kotschyi 6. Ablepharus kitaibelli 7. Ophisaurus apodus 8. Coluber caspius 9. Mauremys rivulata This leaves 2 others, so, the question is what are the remaing 2 reptiles 'of the island'? Maybe it's marine turtles (I only know of Caretta breeding there but Chelonia mydas is a possibility)... or perhaps one or two other reptiles have been recorded. Clark suggests natrix may be present (people have told my mate that they occur on the island too) and as might a 'viper' (xanthina - would tie in with asia minor, or Telescopus) so there are plenty of candidates. The conclusions of the Austrian paper would make interesting reading indeed. Cheers, Lee. Lee Fairclough |
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Tony Phelps Forum Specialist Joined: 09 Mar 2003 No. of posts: 575 View other posts by Tony Phelps |
Posted: 03 Jul 2003 I have been looking into viper distribution in that part of the world for my book and there are a lot of unsubstantiated records. However, Vipera ammodytes meridionalis occurs on Naxos and apparently on some other islands and also has a few isolated populations on SW Turkish mainland. V.xanthina is said to be on Kos and again on some other islands. And I read somewher that on one island both species are sympatric but can't for the life of me remembner where> Tony |
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David Bird Forum Specialist Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 515 View other posts by David Bird |
Posted: 04 Jul 2003 Tony , have you looked at Chondropoulos,B.P.1989 A checklist of Greek reptiles. II The snakes Herpetozoa 2(1/2) 3-36. I know it is old but may have some islands that you do not know about. Dave British Herpetological Society Librarian and member of B.H.S Conservation Committee. Self employed Herpetological Consultant and Field Worker. |
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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416 View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 04 Jul 2003 V.Xanthina is indeed on the Greek Island of Kos. My Brother (Also a herp lover) Lived there for two years , and although there is no pic I trust his Identification abilities. Alan O-> O+> |
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-LAF Senior Member Joined: 03 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 317 View other posts by -LAF |
Posted: 04 Jul 2003 SOME PICTURES FROM IKARIA: Hemidactylus turcicus: 
Tenuidactylus kotschyi: 
Lacerta oertzini: 
Ophisaurus apodus: 
All images ® Tristan Poyser, 2003 Lee Fairclough |
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David Bird Forum Specialist Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 515 View other posts by David Bird |
Posted: 04 Jul 2003 Vipera xanthina recorded for 10 Aegean islands in 1989. Vipera ammodytes recorded on 13 Aegean Islands in 1989 probably more but I do not have time for a literature search British Herpetological Society Librarian and member of B.H.S Conservation Committee. Self employed Herpetological Consultant and Field Worker. |
- Reptiles on Ikaria... David? |