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Sighting of a smooth snake: |
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jpwoodward Member Joined: 19 May 2003 No. of posts: 2  View other posts by jpwoodward |
Posted: 19 May 2003 I believe I recently found a smooth snake on the Gower Peninsular. It was lying on the side of the cliff path û not moving (but alive). Is it unusual to find this sort of snake in this area? If so is there anyone who should be informed? |
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David Bird Forum Specialist Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 515 View other posts by David Bird |
Posted: 19 May 2003 It is very unusual to find the Smooth Snake outside the area of Dorset Hampshire and Surrey where they are rare anyway. One does hear occassionally of specimens turning up elsewhere but none have been subtantiated with specimens or photographs. I have been told of one possibly being seen at a site west of Swansea but without a photograph or detailed description. I would be grateful if you could let me know if you did photograph it and if it was identical to the smooth snake photographs on the ID pages or different in any way. What was the surrounding habitat like ? British Herpetological Society Librarian and member of B.H.S Conservation Committee. Self employed Herpetological Consultant and Field Worker. |
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Tony Phelps Forum Specialist Joined: 09 Mar 2003 No. of posts: 575 View other posts by Tony Phelps |
Posted: 19 May 2003 Hi, It is unlikely that your snake is a smooth snake; but who knows could be an escaped captive (I know of several people who have such from continent). Check the ID pages, and if you still think this was Coronella then can you provide more info - size, scalation, colour/pattern/ eye type, etc. and what sort of habitat.
Cheers Tony Phelps |
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Tony Phelps Forum Specialist Joined: 09 Mar 2003 No. of posts: 575 View other posts by Tony Phelps |
Posted: 19 May 2003 Just beat me to it Dave, yes a photo would be good. I heard of a record years ago near Chepstow, forgot about that. Tony |
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Caleb Forum Coordinator Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 448 View other posts by Caleb |
Posted: 20 May 2003 It's far more likely to be a slow worm- I occasionally get people sending me photos of slow worms, asking if they are smooth snakes. Lying motionless in full view is also a typical slow worm behaviour in my experience! |
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GemmaJF Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 No. of posts: 2090  View other posts by GemmaJF |
Posted: 20 May 2003 My thoughts also Caleb, JP, the relevent ID pages are: http://www.gjscenics.co.uk/rauk/Smooth%20Snake.htm http://www.gjscenics.co.uk/rauk/Slow%20worm.htm I've also heard of juvenille adders being mistaken as Smooth Snakes on occasion. Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant |
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David Bird Forum Specialist Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 515 View other posts by David Bird |
Posted: 20 May 2003 The area where I was told a specimen was found is Pembrey. This was by an amateur herpetologist when I was giving a talk on British reptiles & amphibians & their conservation where i showed slides of all the species to the South Wales ASRA group. Would be nice to hear if you have checked the photo ID's and have come to any conclusion. Coming from Dorset I do see all the snake species from peoples gardens some correctly identified others wrongly but one should not really dismiss reports. From my experience I found that most people report all snakes and slow-worms in their gardens as Adders and even continue after they have looked up web pictures but are often incorrect. British Herpetological Society Librarian and member of B.H.S Conservation Committee. Self employed Herpetological Consultant and Field Worker. |
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jpwoodward Member Joined: 19 May 2003 No. of posts: 2 View other posts by jpwoodward |
Posted: 23 May 2003 Sorry. I didn't get a photo of it. I didn't resemble a slow worm in any way (markings/shape was all wrong). The snake was about 35-40cm long with round black eyes, light beige coloured body with brown patterning. There was a marking resembling an M on its head. It didn't have a particularly well defined head. The surface of its body appeared quite smooth (no clearly defined scales). The snake was lying beside a path along a cliff top covered with a lot of small bushes/ferns/small trees. One of the people who saw the snake did think it might have been a juvenille adder, but wasn't sure. |
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Tony Phelps Forum Specialist Joined: 09 Mar 2003 No. of posts: 575 View other posts by Tony Phelps |
Posted: 23 May 2003 Adders are potentially mature at the size that you mention. My guess, and that is all it is, that this is an escaped captive, maybe not a smooth snake but could be anything. Or, it is an adder and the person figures that adders are babies at that size. The 'M' marking suggests that.
Tony |
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Martin Senior Member Joined: 23 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 87 View other posts by Martin |
Posted: 23 May 2003 I've got 2 young corn snakes here at the minute that were both wild caught in Hampshire this year and ended up being picked up by the RSPCA. I reckon that there's a few foreign species that will cope with our wilds. Martin. |
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GemmaJF Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 No. of posts: 2090 View other posts by GemmaJF |
Posted: 23 May 2003 JP the light biege with brown patterning and M shape on head all suggest that it might have been an adder to me, did the pattern resemble the zigzag or indented stripe of the adders on the ID page? I also recall, but I'm afraid I do not have the reference now, that it is or was a common species of the Gower peninsular. The dark round eye, and smooth scales and indistinct head, suggest otherwise from the general description of the species I've given on this website. However, to see the red iris and vertically slit pupil, distinct head scalation and ridging to the scales takes fairly close examination, some would argue far too close for the casual observer. The first thing that always strikes me about adders is that they appear quite thickset, where as the other 2 native species are slender. Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant |
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j gaughan Senior Member Joined: 04 May 2003 No. of posts: 57 View other posts by j gaughan |
Posted: 27 May 2003 JP's snake does point to VB, but you never know. Of the numerous CA reports that i've received over the years, only a handfull lay within it's known range eg. Hants & the Dorest coast. Intriguing 'heath' reports have come from Berks & Cornwall, but most are probably mis-ID's eg. the one crossing the river at Boxhill & even on the central rough at Ascot Racecourse. When a sea-wall outside Portsmouth can turn up the real thing, we're reminded that all our herps can, on occaision, be found almost anywhere in the UK _like the healthy animal picked up, 30 yrs ago, crossing a road in Essex. |
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Tony Phelps Forum Specialist Joined: 09 Mar 2003 No. of posts: 575 View other posts by Tony Phelps |
Posted: 11 Jun 2003 Smooth snake behaviour. One of my males at main study site today. Under tin post moult this morning. 150m away with nice 'bulge' early afternoon back under tin this evening 'digesting'. Always forages in same bit of wet heath first recorded this male in 1978 when 40cm, now 65cm.
Tony |
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David Bird Forum Specialist Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 515 View other posts by David Bird |
Posted: 26 Jun 2003 Had a look under a few tins whilst walking to a part of a site I am surveying yesterday and found a couple of very large female smooth snakes 50cm s-v 10 cm tail 60 cm total length 55 cm s-v 10.2 cm tail 65 cm total length both very plump and gravid also found a male and an immature specimen Grass Snakes also around British Herpetological Society Librarian and member of B.H.S Conservation Committee. Self employed Herpetological Consultant and Field Worker. |
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Tony Phelps Forum Specialist Joined: 09 Mar 2003 No. of posts: 575 View other posts by Tony Phelps |
Posted: 26 Jun 2003 I went out early this morning and found one of my adult male smooth snakes lying out soaking wet but very active when picked up. This was 0730 and I suspect that he had been out all night probably just lying there, I have often found them in early morning covered in dew. This sort of relates to Alan's query about dawn adders; but I have never seen adder or grass snake out really early. After a night of rain is good though because they haul up on bracken thatch or junctus or climb to the top of heather and bask full stretch, had a few this morning just like that, but this was about 0930. Its as well to remember that snakes all over the world probably have a very similar optimum temp. (around 30degC) its the tolerance either end of the scale thats important. Snakes and other reptiles can obviously operate well below their preferred tempereture otherwise they would never leave their dens. Tony |
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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416 View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 26 Jun 2003 Thanks Tony , very interesting. I must get to see a smooth snake in the wild someday . Cheers, Alan O-> O+> |
- Sighting of a smooth snake |