RAUK - Archived Forum - Surrey Sand lizards

Meant to post a topic yesterday, asking when to expect Las to start emerging, but you could have knocked me down with a feather when I saw this in a clump of heather today !

So, they're out in Surrey, presumably the Dorset ones have been out a while already ? (Though was particularly nice weather here today).

My guess is this is a male?, (from the head, and I guess its a bit early for mating moult?), can anybody give me a more informed opinion pls?

Hi Steve

Superb piccie of a male LA, not as yet in full breeding garb, having only just emerged. Mid-March is not a bad time for first emergence, and on Merseyside it is fairly typical - its just that this year has seen fairly atypical weather conditions for March. Was over on Merseyside last weekened, but weather was atrocious with several inches of snow in places, and no signs of emergence.

Certainly by the end of March, a reasonable number of males (occasionally resembling females) should be evident

Thanks for that John.

Is there much difference across the races (location) in the time of year for emergence? (I would have expected more Southernly to emerge first...depending on the Met. conditions)....and when are we to expect the females out?

Do the males tend to emerge first as with Adder?

Talking of which...I felt sorry for the chap above, he was pretty much surrounded by adders. There's been major clearance at this site, so the Vb are somewhat concentrated in available cover.

Do we have direct evidence for Vb preying on La ??

(So many questions! :P)

Suzi, If you're ever up in the Surrey area, I'm more than happy to take you sandie spotting :P

Hi Steve

I doubt you would find much difference between Dorset and Wealden races, but i would expect a slightly earlier emergence in the south than with the Merseyside animals.

Merseyside animals typically start to appear from mid-march onwards, although first week in March does sometimes happen - furthermore, there have been uncharacteristically mild winters of recent, and I wouldnt mind betting that odd animals might turn up if enough time and effort were put into 'winter survey'. Helen Jackson did some work back in the '70s which showed that the isohel for the 6.5hr May sunshine data passed through both the Poole Basin heaths, and Liverpool  - might not be that much difference between the three races.

As with adders, males are invariably the first to emerge, and can precede the females (on Merseyside) by 3-4 weeks. Confusion can occasionally created by the drab appearance of newly emerged males resembling females.

Not sure about the adder predating on SL issue, but I have frequently observed the two basking within inches of each other both in Dorset and Surrey, without any undue signs of distress - admittedly this has usually been in early spring when neither species is that intent on feeding.

I'm sure the guys at HCT will have more comprehensive data on SL predation by adders, so probably worth speaking to them.

Thanks for the reply John.

Isohel idea is a good one! All the Met. data is freely available online, so I can prolly knock up a quick comparison by season for the main foci.

Al's link looks pretty definitive, but I too have seen sandies and adder basking in very close proximity (inches), tho this too was in spring. Al's link picture is so good, I'm curious if it was set up at all ? Do we know the photographer?

I'll bother Chris at HCT, see what he has to say :P

P.S. Just found and looked at Artur Tabor's web sites, can't say I'm convinced his herp pics are in situ, although they are stunning. Here's another example of one of his predating snake pics.

http://www.arturtabor.pl/foto9/f2.htm

Hi

I would tend to agree that the piccies appear to be set up, or at least within a captive environment  -  guess we'll never know !! Either way, it definitely looks like the rear end of a male LA about to vanish forever.

Helen Jacksons first paper on Mersyside animals was to try and correlate low May sunshine hours as a contributory factor to the much reduced population estimates (200+animals in 1972) of the Mersyside race. It was in fact shown that both Merseyside and the Poole Basin heaths had pretty much the same frequency and distribution of sunshine hours Clearly Met. data is now much more easily assimilated and can be correllated in many different ways to the comparable climatology of the different regions. Perhaps UVb incident radiation  on Merseyside could also be compared with that from traditional Dorset heath habitat. The view factors for radiation available to the lizards might be effectvely increased by multiple reflections from the millions of sand grains in an extensive dune system, as compared with that seen in heathland populations where reflective factors are significantly less.

Plenty of Sandies out today, although not one on the reserves !

No sign of greening up yet...here's some from Surrey, today. The diddy one is Sooo cute !

Hi Steve

Not so many out 'up north' - several of last years juv's and this one posted here, which obviously seeks ancestral protection - must feel pretty safe next to T-Rex !!

It would be hard to find this shot again !

Cheers

Hi John,

Cracking pic with the T-Rex :P

I've mentioned regional marking differences on the forum before, but the marking on your Sandie is so different from the usual down here among the Wealdon animals. Is it usual for Mersey animals to lack the dorsal ocelli ? See how spotted the chap is in my pic ?

Hi Steve

Merseyside animals can be a bit of a mix in terms of how conspicuous the ocelli can appear - sometimes they can be every bit as boldly marked as Wealden animals (and Dorset !), and if you look long enough at the male posted here, you can see the presence of ocelli which will improve as the animal greens up (see animal below - old piccie) - having said that, female Merseysiders can be exceptionally well marked with ocelli, and the two sandy stripes.Quite often, males are completely devoid of any ocelli at all, being uniformly lime green on the sides - remniscent of Roumanian animals.

Today was cold, 5degC, with loads of wind and filtered sun - only three adult males, one 2 year old and I guess approx. 5 of last years babes. Strange really - dont usually see so many juvs. this early but then again, dont usually see so few adult males either.

Cheers

John,

I think that the number of successful hatchings of Sand lizards was unusually high last year, with the good weather of last summer/early Autumn, on Merseyside, maybe that is why there are more than average amount of babies around now. Haven't had the chance to look myself yet, but good to know that some have successfully emerged after the exceptionally cold, dull, windy and wet start to Spring around here.

Cheers,

Mike Brown

Hi Mike

On average over the past 25 years, juveniles are traditionally somewhat later than this to appear on emergence, so its difficult to be sure. Certainly last Autumn there were good numbers of hatchlings visible at many sites, so this may just be a higher number visible now as a consequence of a good breeding year - having said that, the number of males visible yesterday was surprisingly low, probably because it was fairly breezy. Either way, the show has now started and the next 6-8 weeks are going to be very busy !! 

P.S

Quite a few common toad spawn strings around in the dune slacks, and also frog spawn - now hatched with mini taddies. There were signs of some frog spawn failure, probably frozen spawn from early spawn dates, but more than enough successful spawnings have followed.

Cheers

Well, Spring was in the air today. When you stop recording Sandie sighting coz there are too many out, you know its a good day :P

Many of them are pairing up now and maximum greeness seems to have been achieved.

This chap seemed to actually enjoy posing

This lad was the 'greenest'. Such a shame about his ticks, the ear one looks painful, unfortunately I didn't notice until I enlarged the pic .

Would have been a nice pic of a pair together, if the female hadn't been so skittish.

Hi Steve

I really like the head piccie - guess the sheep ticks seem to be the scourge of Dorset/Wealden animals. I even get them on my own legs occasionally especially if working in deep heather. Merseyside animals just dont get afflicted like this so I guess thats a bonus !

Obviously some of your animals were still approachable for piccies. we are now in a position where early morning/tea time allows a reasonable approach - on a hot day now, anywhere after 10-30am means they are very skittish, and hard to find let alone photograph !

my first sandy this year