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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416  View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 11 May 2003 Hi Everyone , This is out of Europe , so I consider this off topic. But, I know there's alot of knowledge in the minds here so I can clear up what's been bugging me since Christmas time. We went to St Lucia , and I've never Identified these. I know there is alot of colour variation in Anolis , but are all these the same species? And can anyone ID the gecko? Thanks in advance Alan
O-> O+> |
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David Bird Forum Specialist Joined: 17 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 515 View other posts by David Bird |
Posted: 12 May 2003 Alan Great pictures can you remember where on St . Lucia you took them ? Anolis luciae and Hemidactylus mabouia seem to be the 2 species photographed but there are 2 other Anoles introduced with a small distribution all are variable. Can copy info on them for you if you want. and produce list of useful books British Herpetological Society Librarian and member of B.H.S Conservation Committee. Self employed Herpetological Consultant and Field Worker. |
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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416 View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 12 May 2003 Hi David , Many thanks. I took quite a few anolis pics from all over the island ,from top to bottom. The one picture I really would have liked to of posted didn't come out that good unfortunately. This was down very near the Pitons end of St.Lucia , and the anole was much larger than the specimins pictured above , it was mostly green with hints of orange and red , and blue around the eye. A list of Books and Info would be great, thanks much appreciated. My main sought after species B.Caribbeaus remained hidden during the visit though Cheers, Alan O-> O+> |
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Tony Phelps Forum Specialist Joined: 09 Mar 2003 No. of posts: 575 View other posts by Tony Phelps |
Posted: 12 May 2003 Alan, David will probably include it, but a good book is R&A of the Eastern Caribbean, Anita Malhotra & Richard Thorpe, 1999 Macmillan Education Ltd. ISBN 0-333-69141-5 Also, I recently saw that the St Lucia Lancehead Bothrops caribbaea was offered on a dealers list in Florida, described as between 3-4ft and wild caught. The same dealer also had Bitis parviocula; looks like the collectors are hitting this little known snake already same as those b.....ds who collected out those Middle Eastern Montivipera. Also on list some the lesser know Atheris.
Tony Phelps
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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416 View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 12 May 2003 Hi Tony , Thanks, it just so happens that i have that book on order from Amazon, should be here soon , so i'm pleased you've given it the thumbs up. Can't leave anything alone those dealers can they Cheers, Alan O-> O+> |
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-LAF Senior Member Joined: 03 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 317 View other posts by -LAF |
Posted: 13 May 2003 Well Alan, as David has said, there are three Anolis species on St Lucia, and I beleive you have all three here! I must stress that this is going by markings and appearance alone, I don't have the taxonomic data for your photos - but I am very confident... Picture 1: Anolis extremus (an introduced species from Barbados) Saw loads of the on Barbodos (where they are endemic). Very distinctive looking. Picture 2: Anolis luciae - (The native one) Picture 3: Anolis wattsi - (an introduced species from Antigua) Really distinctive dorsal markings. Picture 4: Don't do geckos - sorry! Hope this helps, Lee.
Lee Fairclough |
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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416 View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 13 May 2003 Hey Lee, thanks alot It'd be nice to think that i did manage to see all three, I wonder if there's any crossbreeding going on with Anolis. So, you went to Barbados? Did you see anything else there? Cheers Lee, Alan O-> O+> |
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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416 View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 13 May 2003 Book list from David Bird
West Indies O-> O+> |
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Wolfgang Wuster Senior Member Joined: 23 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 326 View other posts by Wolfgang Wuster |
Posted: 13 May 2003 Alan, I also hope they will still be around for future generations to see. However, I rather suspect that the trade for live exotic "pets" will have a fairly minimal effect in most cases, especially for venomous species, for which the market is very limited (with some exceptions, such as highly localised but easy to collect forms). Obviously, for species collected int heir thousands for traditional Oriental medicines and food, it's a different matter. Whether or not future generations will see Bitis parviocula and similar species will depend to a much greater extent on whether any of the habitat remains or whether everything has been poughed up to feed an explodign local population or produce cash crops for cheap purchase from your neighbourhood supermarket. Cheers, Wolfgang Wolfgang Wüster School of Biological Sciences, University of Wales, Bangor http://sbsweb.bangor.ac.uk/~bss166/ |
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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416 View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 13 May 2003 Good Morning Wolfgang Yes yes, I agree. You know me Wolfgang , I don't just mean the dealers , I mean the whoooole big picture . Dealers, Oriental medicines, habitat loss, the whole lot. Mind you, I think maybe wild collecting for the pet trade could be more serious now than years ago . We only have to look at the diminishing numbers of berus here in our home country. So let's assume that the same is happening to other species across the world , but we're not as aware obviously 'cause we're not there. As mentioned in many other threads there are quite a few areas where the numbers of adders has dropped drasticly . If I were now to walk to those places and remove just say... 2-3 specimins for the pet trade , I think it would have devestating effects on that particular area. So really , Habitat loss and oriental medicine could be the main factors , but the pet trade could just put the final nail in the coffin for some species. Cretainly isn't helping anyway. I dunno , it all kinda makes me fell sad. Cheers Wolfgang, Alan
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-LAF Senior Member Joined: 03 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 317 View other posts by -LAF |
Posted: 13 May 2003 Actually Alan, I seem to remember Barbados being relatively devoid of reptile life except for A. extremus, which was ubiquitous across the island. I found one very small gecko (probably a juvenile Hemidactylus) in the hotel and except for the Anolis that was it. Mongeese (or is that mongooses?) seem to have wiped out any snakes on the island. Lots of rather fab land crabs though. It's a tiny island with very little biodiversity and certainly wasn't my ideal choice of a holiday spot but I was young at the time. Wildlife aside though, it was a very nice place. Cheers, Lee. Lee Fairclough |
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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416 View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 13 May 2003 Hi Lee, That is what My inlaws told me , but then I thought , they wouldn't exactly be looking for reptiles. Our Trip to St.Lucia was my Father-inlaws retirement treat to the family , there is no way we could've afforded to go ourselves. He initialy wanted to take us to Barbados , and Sarah (My Wife) on my behalf managed to talk him out of it. We had scanned the net night after night , and as soon as we read that St.Lucia was Beautiful , and had Boa constrictors, and Bothrops, we thought, "That'll do". The only snakes we saw though were used and abused BC's by the roadside. Still, excellent holiday though
Cheers, Al O-> O+> |
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Martin Senior Member Joined: 23 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 87 View other posts by Martin |
Posted: 13 May 2003 Alan, I'm not so sure that British adders are a mainstream pet trade animal? What gives you that idea? Martin. |
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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416 View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 13 May 2003 Hi Martin , No they're not , I was mearly using Berus as an example , because we here in Britain know thier numbers are in Decline. So what I was saying was, We know that berus is in decline without the added removal for the pet trade. So , if the same thing is happening to ,for instance Bitis Parviocula without numbers being removed for the pet trade , then think of the devastating effects if dealers start taking them from the wild aswell. Could be the final nail for a pretty unkown species. Cheers Martin, Alan O-> O+> |
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Martin Senior Member Joined: 23 Feb 2003 No. of posts: 87 View other posts by Martin |
Posted: 13 May 2003 Aha, I'm with you now. I would have thought that habitat destruction would have been a major decline factor. Lack of roaming ability therefore reducing the useage area, coupled with human activity and pet disturbances (cats and dogs) are factors I worry about! (But have no idea if any of that is relevant where you are talking about?) Martin. |
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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416 View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 13 May 2003 Hi Martin, Yup yup. I tend to think along different lines also, though not proven. For instance, general Environmental damage (as in the whole planet) . Chaotic weather patterns world wide (Those floods over two summers in the Uk, did they effect our herps?) , Changes in prey items , as in reduced numbers etc.. I think there could be factors behind vanishing herps that we are not aware of yet. Who knows? Cheers Martin , Alan O-> O+> |
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, shame.
. I remember reading threads over on Kingsnake.com about some dealer who had Bitis parviocula for sale a while ago. I always feel that I/we are lucky enough to look in the field and find certain reptiles , and I hope that my son will be able to do the same should he wish too. I hope these snakes are still out there when the time comes.
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