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Tinning in grazed areas: |
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Matt Harris Senior Member Joined: 03 Jun 2003 No. of posts: 196  View other posts by Matt Harris |
Posted: 02 Apr 2006 Does anyone have any experience of monitoring reptile populations using refugia (tins) in areas that are grazed (by exmoor ponies in this case)? We have an area of heathland restoration that is to be fenced and grazed but would like to use tins as one of the monitoring techniques. We would like to avoid potential injury to the herps on the site (mostly adders) and the ponies. Many thanks, Matt Gwent Amphibian and Reptile Group (GARG) |
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Vicar Senior Member Joined: 02 Sep 2004 No. of posts: 1181 View other posts by Vicar |
Posted: 02 Apr 2006 Matt, You may want to get in contact with Emma Hutchins at Marwell Zoo. They graze a site in N.E.Hants and also have a lot on tins down for the herp monitoring. Steve Langham - Chairman 
Surrey Amphibian & Reptile Group (SARG). |
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herpetologic2 Senior Member Joined: 15 Jun 2004 No. of posts: 1369  View other posts by herpetologic2 |
Posted: 03 Apr 2006
You will have to fence off areas for tinning - then the structural part of the vegetation would improve which would allow reptiles to survive. Adders tend not to live in grazed areas - as they end up like the recent photos posted on the early adder posts Grazing is a good way of reducing the numbers of reptiles found in particular areas - for instance removing molinia tussocks for heathland restoration has lead to a dramatic drop in adder numbers from 43 to 6 - I suspect also that the invertebrates, lizards and mammals all suffer the same fate - though I suspect that animals will migrate to other more suitable areas - though in some cases this habitat is sparse and leads to collection and killing (in case of adder) Another technique would to lay dead hedges or brash piles which extend from areas of suitable habitat - bracken/bramble/ rough grass etc - these would then produce possibly reptiles
Regards
JC Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant - visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife |
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Vicar Senior Member Joined: 02 Sep 2004 No. of posts: 1181 View other posts by Vicar |
Posted: 03 Apr 2006 Good points Jon, Although the site to which I am refering has no fencing, other than to keep the public out, as its a closed site. It also has by far the best numbers of reptiles than any site nearby, even though similar habitat is abundant, this may be down to lack of public pressure? I'm convinced that the grazing issue isn't black & white, and that the intensity levels of grazing is a key factor. When grazing animal numbers are calculated upon farming guidelines, where you cram as many animals as a determined acreage will support its a sure disaster for reptiles. This site has extremely light grazing, there appears to be no effect whatsoever on reptile numbers, and flora has improved significantly, possibly assisting with improving the food-chain? There is quantitative assessment going on, but it apperas to be an excellent management compromise. Steve Langham - Chairman
Surrey Amphibian & Reptile Group (SARG). |
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herpetologic2 Senior Member Joined: 15 Jun 2004 No. of posts: 1369 View other posts by herpetologic2 |
Posted: 03 Apr 2006
Yeah I agree light grazing can be very effective - though flora improvements especially on chalk grasslands I have been working on do not often consider the implications of reduce structural diversity on inverts, mammals and reptiles There are simple steps that can be taken to reduce the effect of grazing - providing dead hedges, log piles and anything which reduces the grazing pressure in certain local areas - but nowadays the managment is all or nothing. An example I can think of was an area in Surrey where an important rough grassland bank was mown - taking out a complete bramble bush - and removing a large amount of cover for emerging adders - why take out the complete bush? why couldnt half do? I am giving a small talk/workshop on adders to local volunteers at a country park where their ethos is that reptiles are ideal bioindicators of the habitats changes due to management - I cant wait such a breath of fresh air..... Regards
JC Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant - visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife |
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Matt Harris Senior Member Joined: 03 Jun 2003 No. of posts: 196 View other posts by Matt Harris |
Posted: 07 Apr 2006 Thanks for the replies so far. The grazing on these sites is an inevitability, as is the reptile monitoring, the only question is the methodology used. I'll get in touch with Emma Hutchins, but in the meantime I was looking for a feel of how hosses interact with tins. e.g will they step on them or avoid them? Matt Gwent Amphibian and Reptile Group (GARG) |
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GemmaJF Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 No. of posts: 2090  View other posts by GemmaJF |
Posted: 07 Apr 2006 Matt, in our experience ponies will tramble tins. We had a number of refugia in a small paddock in Essex where ponies were introduced. Though the refugia were removed as quickly as possible, all the tins were totally trashed. There may be some mileage in using very heavy gauge tin, but I have not deployed refugia where grazing animals have access since this. Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant |
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Robert V Senior Member Joined: 06 Aug 2004 No. of posts: 717 View other posts by Robert V |
Posted: 20 Jul 2006 Hi all, Has anyone ever used carpet tiles instead of tins? Are they any good? Is it worth investing in a pack of carpet tiles for such study or is it better to stick to what? PS. Lifted a large arc of bark today and found two large female slow worms and three very small neo slow worms. Is this very early to record neos? Rob RobV |
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GemmaJF Admin Group Joined: 25 Jan 2003 No. of posts: 2090 View other posts by GemmaJF |
Posted: 20 Jul 2006 Carpet tiles can be OK for slow-worms. A better alternative is mineralised roofing felt. Best I know is corrugated black bitumen roofing felt, out performs all others including traditional 'tins' which I now regard as more than a little awkward, heating up quickly, cooling quickly and being difficult to deploy, cut etc. Gemma Fairchild, Independent Ecological Consultant |
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armata Forum Specialist Joined: 05 Apr 2006 No. of posts: 928 View other posts by armata |
Posted: 20 Jul 2006 My Lino tiles are working out OK for snakes here in SA; carpet tiles are us except for small slow worms 'I get my kicks on Route 62' |
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Suzi Senior Member Joined: 06 Apr 2005 No. of posts: 860 View other posts by Suzi |
Posted: 09 Aug 2006 Gemma I am on the (unsuccessful) trail of the corrugated black bitumen roofing felt you mention so any chance of some help. Who can I get it from and anchoring methods etc. Thanks Suz |
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herpetologic2 Senior Member Joined: 15 Jun 2004 No. of posts: 1369 View other posts by herpetologic2 |
Posted: 09 Aug 2006
Hi Suzi You can get this stuff from B & Q, Homebase or other builders merchants. Personally I find roofing felt better than this stuff - yes it does attract reptiles but in my experience flat roofing felt is just as good if not better. Though you should use a mixture of different materials such as wooden boards, tin, roofing felt, rubber etc in order to maximise the chances of finding reptiles at different times of the day and within different weather conditions etc fixing down felt etc is easily done with a tent peg or two Jon
Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant - visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife |
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armata Forum Specialist Joined: 05 Apr 2006 No. of posts: 928 View other posts by armata |
Posted: 09 Aug 2006 Have you guys had any problems with roofing felt during the hot weather? Small reptiles, especially small slow worms can get stuck when it starts getting sticky. As mentioned a while ago, lino tiles, although small work ver well; got a 85cm house snake under one the other day. Cheers 'I get my kicks on Route 62' |
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Suzi Senior Member Joined: 06 Apr 2005 No. of posts: 860 View other posts by Suzi |
Posted: 09 Aug 2006 Thanks Gemma and Jon. I have permission to put down covers in a few places but this is just for me really as I don't do official surveys. Cutting, transporting and lugging about tin sheets isn't great fun is it? I will try some of the other materials for next year. Suz |
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arvensis Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2006 No. of posts: 445 View other posts by arvensis |
Posted: 09 Sep 2006 Suzi, I've posted in the R&A section. In B&Q, this corrugated bitument is called Coroline ú7.94 for a 200cm x 90cm sheet. I'm going to look at other places to compare prices. Tony, I've noticed how sticky roofing felt can get - how about using some plastic coating or such for the bottom of it to help prevent this? As for the lino tiles, I have some kitchen lino off-cuts which I'm going to use as refugia - 4 are already in position at a site, with another 3-4 to be added. It will be interesting to see when I find underneath. Mark Hampshire Amphibian and Reptile Group. |
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Suzi Senior Member Joined: 06 Apr 2005 No. of posts: 860 View other posts by Suzi |
Posted: 09 Sep 2006 Thanks Mark I will try some of this next year. Unfortunately my partner in all things reptilian will not be here till next summer so that is when I'll put them down. Not ideal I know. Would have done it this year ready for the next season but it was too hot to do much when we were out and about (remember those days?!). After a couple of weeks of being in position we usually start to find things under covers so all is not lost. Suz |
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arvensis Senior Member Joined: 15 Mar 2006 No. of posts: 445 View other posts by arvensis |
Posted: 09 Sep 2006 Well at one site, theres a tin thats been in place for a month at most and an Adder has already found it. So it goes to show how quick they can be used if in the right place. Mark Hampshire Amphibian and Reptile Group. |
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Matt Member Joined: 09 Feb 2006 No. of posts: 23 View other posts by Matt |
Posted: 10 Sep 2006 [QUOTE=Robert V] Hi all, Has anyone ever used carpet tiles instead of tins? Are they any good? Is it worth investing in a pack of carpet tiles for such study or is it better to stick to what? PS. Lifted a large arc of bark today and found two large female slow worms and three very small neo slow worms. Is this very early to record neos? Rob [/QUOTE] I'm not sure about carpet tiles, but I have seen sites where roofing felt refugia were places in a cattle grazed area. The cattle basically ate all the mats and the regular disturbance by the cattle rendered the mats useless. Re the slow worms, I have been trapping out a site in Surrey and have been seeing young of the year for the past couple of weeks. Regards Matt BRAG - Berkshire Reptile & Amphibian Group |
- Tinning in grazed areas |