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Unanswered Melanistic Qos: |
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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416  View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 30 Mar 2006 I have many unanswered melanistic questions , if you know any of the answers i'd love to hear them. Thanks in advance 1: Has anyone ever found a melanistic juvenile adder? 2:I've noticed many of my adders apparently turning melanistic with age, is this why i've not seen a juv' specimin? 3: (Maybe a stupid one this but) Many melanistic adders i've seen have been on areas that have suffered burns in the past , could heath fires trigger melanism? 4: Are melanistic mostly males as it's the males that already have black. Wouldn't a female be a very dark uniform brown? 5: Do melanistic emerge at lower tempretures because of the ability to warm up quicker, and do they retreat into cover sooner than those with the usual markings because they could overheat? 6: Does melanism occur in other European vipers like xanthina, lebatina etc? Ok , that's about it for now . As I said some of these Q's may just be plain silly to those that know,, but i've had these thoughts buzzing round me head for some years now 
Thanks in Advance folks, Alan O-> O+> |
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Jerry Senior Member Joined: 08 Jan 2005 No. of posts: 66 View other posts by Jerry |
Posted: 30 Mar 2006 Hi alan, i think you are right as on a local heath to me i used to know how many melanic adders there were ( note were) there was never any juvenile melanic adders only adults , no subadults either! some snakes were notably going darker but they only ever were completely melanic as adults. i have had a female melanic adder with not a trace of markings on her which gave birth to eleven normaly colored young. I think this happens with age . I wonder if two melanic adders would produce some melanic young though?I have thought the same about melanism and heath fires also. but there are many heaths which are burnt every year in Dorset but these have no melanic adders so i think the gene has to be present .i have seen as many melanic females as males but sadly near me they are not present now! the melanic adders i have seen are definately more alert than normal colored , i think you are right as they are more able to warm up easily.See you soon Alan. jerry |
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Tony Phelps Forum Specialist Joined: 09 Mar 2003 No. of posts: 575 View other posts by Tony Phelps |
Posted: 30 Mar 2006 All the black females I have known have given birth to normal coloured young. I have records of three males and one female from birth which were normal then grew darker during the 3rd year, but only one, a male is (2005) fully melanistic; the others you can see the zigzag still although the ground colour is very dark grey for both sexes. Vipera aspis atra is often melanistic as is V.seoanei, and V.latastei in the north of its range. I have never heard of a melanistic V.ursinii, or V.ammodytes; but Wolfgang has pics of a black hybrid. I cannot think of any of the xanthina complex that have melanistic examples either; though someone might prove me wrong. Certainly no Macrovipera spp. and there are only two species of Macrovipera now anyway (plus sub spp,) mauritanica and deserti are now Daboia. Melanism seems to be a northern things as far as vipers are concerned - never seen a black puffie, yet 
T |
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herpetologic2 Senior Member Joined: 15 Jun 2004 No. of posts: 1369  View other posts by herpetologic2 |
Posted: 30 Mar 2006
Its funny - I have a frozen melanistic male adder which was killed by a bird of prey at one of my sites and I have noticed that the scales and parts of the body have turned to 'normal' colouration - suggesting a break down of the dark pigments in the skin? JC
Vice Chair of ARG UK - self employed consultant - visit ARG UK & Alresford Wildlife |
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Alan Hyde Senior Member Joined: 17 Apr 2003 No. of posts: 1416 View other posts by Alan Hyde |
Posted: 31 Mar 2006 Hi Jerry, JC, Tony, thanks for your thoughts. I'd like to see the pics of the black Hybrid
So, if melanism is a Northern thing does this just mean with regards to Europe , or do we find more melanistic the further North we travel in UK? I see that in future I will have to look at the Tails of melanistic to see the females ,(Thanks for that tip Gemma  ) and I think I can safely assume that melanism is something that happens at a certain stage in life and that melanistics are not born.
Thanks folks, that certainly wrapped up a few of my Q's So how about Melanism and body tempreture control , do they emerge in cooler conditions and vanish in heat before the standard adder? All the best, Alan O-> O+> |
- Unanswered Melanistic Qos |